Suspension Work for '78 280Z

[Davey G]

I'm new to Z cars, working on my first:D. This one feels like it's got '78 suspension parts...all of them shot to hell:ermm:. So refurbing them is first thing I'll do. What should I expect to replace/change to put it back to a good street ride, and what will it cost me? Anything weird to look out for or that needs to be better than OEM? I'll move to interior from there.

[WingZr0]

Try looking at ArizonaZcar.com for one place that has better than OEM parts. Alot of them are race but some of thier things are actually good as replacements for stock but let the pros here chime in on what you really need to do. Plan on replacing all your bushings, if you use Polyurathane you need stiffer springs to shorten the suspension travel or you'll snap the tie rods. Or just rubber bushings on the tie rods instead.

Edited February 21, 2010 by WingZr0

[Z Tyler Z]

Today 08:04 PM

Davey G

Suspension Work for '78 280Z

I'm new to Z cars, working on my first. This one feels like it's got '78 suspension parts...all of them shot to hell. So refurbing them is first thing I'll do. What should I expect to replace/change to put it back to a good street ride, and what will it cost me? Anything weird to look out for or that needs to be better than OEM? I'll move to interior from there.

I just redid my suspension a few months ago with anther member on this forum (Dave). If you just using it as a street car then you'll probably just need new struts, most member use Tokico or KYB; bushing kit, most use urethane; lowering aren't a necessity but are nice.

I bought my Tokicos (blues) on Ebay for $227 (57 a strut) with free shipping. MSA urethane kit is around 190. Then lowering springs are 180-230 at MSA. I used the Eibachs and so far like them.

[Davey G]

If you just using it as a street car then you'll probably just need new struts, most member use Tokico or KYB; bushing kit, most use urethane; lowering aren't a necessity but are nice.

Have most found the stock springs good with new Tokico or KYBs? Does the gas shock raise the car with a stock spring? What about the blue Tokico set that includes springs...any good? Do these lower the car? Are they typically very stiff? I want a good balance between good ride and good handling.

Opinions? Strategies?

[Jeff G 78]

You say that you want a good balance between ride and handling. Does that mean this is going to be a street car only?

You need to think hard about what you want out of your Z. Are the roads where you drive most often smooth, or rough? If smooth, you can get away with a more aggressive setup. If they are rough, you might want to stay a bit more conservative.

Replacing the bushings takes a lot of time and energy and is not something you want to redo if you don't like the results. OE rubber will ride good and poly will ride poorly, but give crisper steering and handling. Either will be a huge handling improvement over 30 year old bushings. You will trade off ride for sharper handling with poly bushings.

My '78 has a very typical setup with Tokico springs, adjustable Tokico dampers, poly bushings throughout, big MSA swaybars, and 16" wheels with 50 series tires. My Z is one of the worst riding cars I've ever driven on our horrible Michigan roads. It takes the smooth roads great and even does well over grainy surfaces, but throw in frost heaves or any sharp bumps and the ride falls apart. The S30's architecture simply can't cope with sharp bumps if equiped with poly bushings. Recession is the key to a good ride over rough roads. Modern suspensions allow the wheels to absorb bumps by receeding rearward as well as travel upward. Poly bushings hold the suspension rigid longitudinally which sends the shock of a bump directly into the body of the S30.

As soon as I exit Michigan and cross into Ohio where the roads are maintained better, my Z rides just fine and handles the backroads beautifully. When I finally get it to a track, I'm sure I will appreciate my setup even more.

If I just drove it as a daily driver though and didn't want that last little bit of handling, I would skip the poly bushings and replace everything with new OE rubber. I would keep the springs and dampers though. I like the way the car rides over large undulations and how it corners flat. It also looks great lowered an inch.

[Davey G]

You say that you want a good balance between ride and handling. Does that mean this is going to be a street car only?...You need to think hard about what you want out of your Z. Are the roads where you drive most often smooth, or rough? If smooth, you can get away with a more aggressive setup. If they are rough, you might want to stay a bit more conservative.

Jeff G - I get what you're saying. I do a lot of freeway driving in the Houston area, but when off the freeways it can get rough. Texas highways are very good, but backroads and city streets are a patchwork of concrete, asphalt, and the occasional RR crossing.

I've already decided against the poly bushings. If I've got rubber will the Tokico strut/spring set be firm yet forgiving in the conditions I describe, or do I just want to add the KYB G2 to the stock springs? BTW - The stock springs seem to be the right height, no squatting, with about 1" of air showing above the top of the tire if you get my meaning.

[Jeff G 78]

Davey, you might want to measure the current ride height as your stock springs could have sagged quite a bit. Replacing them could possibly raise the car. I can't remember my numbers, but I have them written down somewhere. My Tokico springs lowered my '78 exactly 1" all the way around.

Illuminas are good, but they are pricey. I run mine on 1 in front and 3 in the back for street use. The Tokico Blues are reportedly the same as Illuminas on setting 3. I'm not sure if the KYB GR2 struts are the same as they were 25 years ago, but I was pretty happy with the KYBs I had on a '76 back then. I was running completely stock other than the KYBs. The ride was firm, but not bad at all. I think you'd be happy with either KYBs or Tokico Blues with the stock springs.

Replacing all of the bushings will make a huge difference. Do your research and try to borrow the spindle pin puller from either this site or hybridz.org. Replacing the rear outer bushings will be the hardest thing you ever do to your Z. It is well known as the official right of passage in the Z world. Be sure to check replace as needed the differential mount if you have any driveline clunks.

[DeMoore]

Try looking at ArizonaZcar.com for one place that has better than OEM parts. Alot of them are race but some of thier things are actually good as replacements for stock but let the pros here chime in on what you really need to do. Plan on replacing all your bushings, if you use Polyurathane you need stiffer springs to shorten the suspension travel or you'll snap the tie rods. Or just just rubber bushings on the tie rods instead.

Are you sure I need to replace the springs? I have a poly kit that's going on this year and I haven't planned to replace the springs. How often does a tie rod actually snap with the poly mod? My wallet is hoping that it's not an absolute need.

[Jeff G 78]

There are very few cases of broken TC rods on S30s. S130s are the ones that fail when used with poly bushings. To eliminate the risk on an S30, use a new rubber bushing on the back side and a poly bushing on the front side. This will give you the stiffness of poly with the flexability of rubber.

[gnosez]

There are no issues with poly and TC rods in S30 cars. This does happen on S130 cars. If you are concerned use either rubber/rubber or poly/rubber. I sell Z parts and the only reason I've sold TC rods was after someone was in an accident. Before I switched to TechnoTunings TC rods I ran poly/poly on my very low 240 that is driven on crappy New England roads with no issues whatsoever.

As to the rest of your suspension refresh, I would strongly suggest you go poly everywhere but the following locations: tranny and steering coupler. Stay with the stock front and rear sway bars but use poly bushings. Put in poly steering rack bushings after you sand them down to make them fit.

And there was no mention of replacing all the bearing, ball joints and tie-rods. Do it if they haven't been done in the last 50-100k miles.

I have just done a customer's 280 last month and the difference in the ride was amazing.

[WingZr0]

Are you sure I need to replace the springs? I have a poly kit that's going on this year and I haven't planned to replace the springs. How often does a tie rod actually snap with the poly mod? My wallet is hoping that it's not an absolute need.

Tried to find the thread were I was told/read that but couldn't. Basically what I gathered was with Poly Bushings when the stock springs compress they would put to much load on the Tie Rods because the Poly wouldn't have enough give to them and the Rods will snap from the travel length of the stock springs creating to much of a load. With stiffer springs the suspension travel is shorter hence the remedie to the problem. Theres a good thread called "Poly bushing : not worth it?" by Mikemerkury with lots of information on Poly Bushings and user experience of pro and cons. If you do go with poly I highly suggest you drill and tap for grease fittings to eliminate the squeaks you'll hear about. Edited February 21, 2010 by WingZr0

[Davey G]

So, if I want good struts AND good springs do I need to go with new Illuminas and new Tokico springs as well? Would the KYB/OEM spring combo be a waste of money...if it were your money?