Please explain the nomenclature

[ajmcforester]

You used the word factory I wonder if the factory police will come.

I wish we could have a good forum in what can be considered optional accessories for restored car competitions. Some different cars have rule that allow for some dealer modification.

Also establish more specific rules with higher details. I was watching a 240z get judged at Hershey, PA it was quick do to the lac of detail in the judging sheets for the Z it was not even close compared to the Corvettes or even the sprite that set next to the Z. Higher technical rules will help the Z car become more collectible, and give a utilizable constructs to aid other in restoration.

I just pocking a little fun at a frustration I've found with this site. Just remember true factory options is a myth.

[Kathy & Rick]

I wish we could have a good forum in what can be considered optional accessories for restored car competitions. Some different cars have rule that allow for some dealer modification.

I just pocking a little fun at a frustration I've found with this site. Just remember true factory options is a myth.

I agree with that "MYTH" assessment. I'll stick my head in the guillotine and

hope for the best. Maybe a distinction of terms might help my cause.

FACTORY OPTIONS: I would say NONE except for exterior paint color. Even

then, back in the day with ZCars being as rare as they were (around 2 per

dealer per month) and waiting lists miles, I mean months long, you either (a)

took the next car in on the trailer, ( waited a few more months until a Z in

your choice of color finally came in, or © got bounced from the list and your

deposit refunded for reneging on a car when your "turn" came up.

DATSUN COMPETITION DEPARTMENT CATALOGUE: Pretty self-explanatory.

You could consider these very pricey, special order, dealer-installed options.

EXAMPLES: HD 5-speeds (the only other 5-speed available in the US at the

time was from the SRL-311 2-liter roadster); 3.90. 4.11, 4.38 LSD's (limited

slip differentials), 800kg clutch assemblies, and the parts to make them work.

DATSUN ACCESSORIES CATALOGUE: Other popular options eventually

appeared in a catalogue, such as: bumper overrider bars (F&R), floor mats,

alloy wheels, a center console armrest, a "parcel bar" (a very practical install

for the front edge of the cargo deck to keep your brief case from landing in

your lap)! Many of these aftermarket items were also produced by other

manufacturers as well. There is a debate about A/C. The first I remember

was a kit that came in "a one-ton, 20-cu.ft." box. I thought that that came

in in 1972, but others seem to have seen it earlier.

One I never noticed but which Carl Beck pointed out on the CTZCC.com site

was, of all things, a vinyl roof application!! BTW Carl, are you there? You

were in Sales back then; could you please add to these observations or

correct those errors where my memory has failed after thirty-plus years?

And administrators, if you would like to make this into a separate forum as

Mr. Forester suggested, please do so with my blessings.

All Z Best,................................Kathy & Rick

Edited March 17, 2010 by Kathy & Rick

[moonpup]

FACTORY OPTIONS: I would say NONE except for exterior paint color.

Let's not forget the factory option of having either a manual or an automatic transmission.

[Arne]

Let's not forget the factory option of having either a manual or an automatic transmission.

Not before 8/70 production for the North American market.

[ajmcforester]

Then you run into cars like mine that were modified before it was sold as an advertisement piece at an auto spa. Were they added AC, the side stripes and a BRE Spook (if you know of an original, I'm looking for one). They sold her for 5,300.

Now I don't want to say my car should be considered original restoration if I brought back to how it was sold a BRE Spook would be a hard sell as original. I feel that some of these options, with proof they were put on before bill of sale should be excepted, especially the AC units since this is very common. Also you will find in other cars that period correct before sale aftermarket AC units are accepted as original to the car, even some other cars that had AC as options, allow aftermarket AC units.

The last time Carl tried to talk about factory, the factory police came and I didn't see Caral on the boards for almost 2 weeks.

Well I better be quite before the "factory" police come.

[HS30-H]

You used the word factory I wonder if the factory police will come.

Discussions surrounding the definition of the term "Factory" - as it relates to 'our' cars - were, as far as I remember, quite important for classiczcars.com. I think we all learned something from it ( OK - maybe not everybody...... ) and the legacy of that runs far beyond any "F-word" or "Factory Police" jokes.

The word may raise both smiles and hackles here, but I think it is important that we all appreciate just what it means in reference to the cars that we are discussing here. That's what it all comes down to.

Just remember true factory options is a myth.

Depends what market you are talking about. For the Japanese market, true factory options were very far from being mythical.

These are all Japanese cars we are talking about here, and they were sold in many parts of the world. Parts and specs were sometimes shared between different market models, and the existence of certain specs and options in one market model often affected the details of another market model, whether those 'options' were fitted or not. Ignore the big picture, and you probably won't understand what you have in front of you.

Sweeping generalisations about these details are very likely to be wrong, so it's usually worth pointing out the specific market / model you are referring to when you come out with statements like this:

Just remember true factory options is a myth.

See?

I agree with that "MYTH" assessment. I'll stick my head in the guillotine and

hope for the best.

Madame Guillotine has passed her judgement, and your head is now laying in a basket at her feet.

And administrators, if you would like to make this into a separate forum as

Mr. Forester suggested, please do so with my blessings.

Does anything need changing? We've discussed the topic of 'Options' ( and for most markets ) many times on classiczcars, and much interesting data can be found by using the SEARCH function of the site. Here are a couple of examples:

First Japanese 'home' market options for S30-series Z models:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14422

Japanese 'home' market options on introduction of HS30 models:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14501

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

Discussions surrounding the definition of the term "Factory" - as it relates to 'our' cars - were, as far as I remember, quite important for classiczcars.com. I think we all learned something from it ( OK - maybe not everybody...... ) and the legacy of that runs far beyond any "F-word" or "Factory Police" jokes.

The word may raise both smiles and hackles here, but I think it is important that we all appreciate just what it means in reference to the cars that we are discussing here. That's what it all comes down to.

During the last discussion of this topic with Carl, I realized that Carl is not recognizing the level of autonomy that apparently existed between Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Nissan in the USA. I say apparently as this conversation illustrates the condition. As has been pointed out MANY times, optional equipment was available from the manufacturer from the very begining of production however not in the North American market. The North American market (or Nissan in the USA) developed its own optional equipment which was finally published in a catalog for the 1972 model year. What I find significant is the way the optional equipment issue was handled outside the sphere of the manufacturer. And...how this relates to the issues surrounding Yutaka Katayama and his relationship to Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.

Edited March 17, 2010 by 26th-Z

[TomoHawk]

Now if you want to get into unusal names for things, visit a LBC (little British Car) site! Triumph and MG especially. They've actually had to make a glossary of British to American auto terminology!

Do you have ant references (link) you can share for a glossary example?

thxZ

[sblake01]

Do you have ant references (link) you can share for a glossary example?

thxZ

http://www.team.net/sol/solterms.html#translations

[Arne]

During the last discussion of this topic with Carl, I realized that Carl is not recognizing the level of autonomy that apparently existed between Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Nissan in the USA. I say apparently as this conversation illustrates the condition. As has been pointed out MANY times, optional equipment was available from the manufacturer from the very begining of production however not in the North American market. The North American market (or Nissan in the USA) developed its own optional equipment which was finally published in a catalog for the 1972 model year. What I find significant is the way the optional equipment issue was handled outside the sphere of the manufacturer. And...how this relates to the issues surrounding Yutaka Katayama and his relationship to Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.

This type of relationship between US distributors and overseas manufacturers regarding standard and optional equipment was not at all unusual in the '60s and into the early '70s. Similar examples of this type existed with many European imports as well. I've run into this in the past with British and German imports. Part of it may have been to simplify the inventory headaches for the US distributors. For example, as popular as the 240Z became (waiting lists that were often months long), imagine the complications that the availability of numerous true factory options would have introduced. When the only US choices were color (and later automatic transmission), it really simplified the delivery process to the customer.

[EScanlon]

As Arne points out, the distribution of inbound Z's from the port of arrival to their final destination would have been tremendously overworked if there had been specific destinations for specific vehicles.

Rick points out the limited distribution of 2 vehicles per distributor (which, from other discussions was sparse and spread-out), and the likelyhood that you would be offered; take it or leave it; or get back in line.

I recall a similar situation with the 25th Anniversary edition of the Corvette, the one with the special graphics etc.

In both those situations, some Dealers/distributors would up the price as much as it would bear. The up-pricing may not be as well known now as it was then, but it has been brought up in discussion before. Some of those who were "out-bid" were (are) adamant that this was unfair. What would they have felt if they were told that the vehicle they were "forced" to accept, had an option that they did not wish to pay for?

But one item that has continuously not been addressed is the problem that the steel import tariff laws, in place at that time in the US, may have played on the quality/thickness of the steel on the car (the cars weight was what was used to determine said tariff) AND the availability of options. More options means variable weight which means raising the average weight of the vehicle.... higher tariffs. Don't forget that Customs spots checks the vehicles at the port of entry.

Variations in the weights of the vehicles would have meant a closer scrutiny and therefore slower off-loading.

E

P.S.: You only have to worry about the police when you know you're doing something wrong.

[vercingetorix]

Don't forget the:

cottonpickingfatherlessnogoodpatheticpieceof@#%!*#@@!!! = spindle pins