is 11/71 considered a 72?

[Mike B]

I'll bet that the info that Kats provided us somewhere else is a lot more accurate than mine, as he seems to have had some access to the actual production records in-country. It stands to reason that those would be more accurate than mine, which were garnered over the years, and to this day still have gaps between "the lasts and the firsts." Now if I could learn to use this computer I might be able to find Kats' and Nissan's info!

Rick, here is the thread Alan is referring to regarding 1969 production figures http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7801. There is lots of good information here and it will take about a week to read through it all and take it all in.

And if there are Jan cars with lower VIN than 721, well...............

Well, I can think of at least one car with a VIN lower than 721 and it has a production date of 2/1970..... HLS30-00048. If you have been to Jim F's place then you probably have even seen it yourself .

-Mike

[HS30-H]

Alan, thanks for your input. The fact that Nissan Shatai declares a production of 785 units in Dec 69 seems to come from a good source.

I can't think of a better source than the private records of the company that actually made them. It was quite a coup for Kats to get hold of them, considering the situation. We are very lucky that he shared them with us.

So I can attest to #418 and #965, which as a WORST (BEST?) case scenario gives us a POTENTIAL of 547 cars built during Dec 69. Assuming #502 to be a valid Nov car and #721 to be a legitimate Jan car reduces that to 218. VINs for Nov 69 with rare exception shouldn't be higher than #586, considering that Carl's #587 car is a Dec 69 unit. Thus the possible population shrinks to 134. And if there are Jan cars with lower VIN than 721, well...............

With all due respect, I have to say that your methodology in attempting to get a handle on all this appears to be fatally flawed. Those door jamb tag 'build' dates are demonstrably unreliable ( especially so for the first year of production ) and the 'VIN' ( 'Shatai Bango' ) numbers are not much better. They are better used as rough guides than as unimpeachable truth, and the door jamb tags in particular could easily have been stamped with whatever date was convenient or expedient for Nissan. Satisfying the main reason they were on there in the first place is the first place to point the finger at.....

All the same, I can still accept Nissan's "production" figure of 688 for US.......

You misunderstand what the figures relate to. Nissan Shatai's figure of 688 cars for December 1969 related to 'Domestic' S30-series Z models ( 'S30' prefixed 'Fairlady Z' and 'Fairlady Z-L' models, and 'PS30' prefixed 'Fairlady Z432' and 'fairlady Z432-R' models ). 'Domestic' might mean the US to YOU, but to the Japanese it means......... Japan.

Moreover, the corresponding figure of 97 cars for 'Export' markets doesn't automatically mean that they were all 'HLS30' prefixed ( even if the majority would have been ) and even then not all 'HLS30' prefixed chassis numbers were on North American market cars, or were all sent to North America in the first place.

While we are at it, I have to say that your shorthand habit of describing individual cars as "#418", "#502" and "#13" can be confusing, potentially annoying, and simply sows the seeds of future mistakes - not to mention tripping up the SEARCH function. These body serial numbers are just about meaningless without their prefixes. It might mean a lot of extra typing, but I think it's better for all of us in the long run.

Alan T.

[Kathy & Rick]

Wow, Mike!-- You were so right, a slow reader like me would take ninety

forevers to read all that, much less digest it! Maybe if I can get someone

to print it for me, reading it like a book might make it easier!

You're right, Jimbo has an awesome collection. The first thing I said when

I showed up for the event was, "I think I died and went to Z Heaven!" It

was like I was entering a Z museum, with all those gorgeous cars. And Carl

trailered in his restored Baja Z, and others were there as well. (All VIN which

follow are to be prefixed HLS30-000. Sorry for any confusion or annoyance

I might have caused anyone by not using the complete VIN earlier). I was hoping to see Chris' #26 and 27, but he was unable to make it.

I saw so many beauties I don't recall which was which other than #16 and

#19. But I am sure I saw #48. With a 2/70 production date, that would

indicate a car which was pulled from the assembly line for some reason,

probably corrective, and reinserted after the correction had been made.

And which corroborates Alan's statement that in the early days of produc-

tion, quite a few aberrations can be found.

All Z Best,........................................Kathy & Rick