what damage makes a Z unrestoreable

[Arne]

Out of curiosity, what exactly would be considered "low?"

In this context, certainly lower than 1000, and more probably sub-500.

[sblake01]

Stephen!

Put in a few specifics-for those newbies that are not up to speed with budget killers!

They need to know what to look past, and what to walk(RUN) past!

It would be hard for me to be specific. I know what I wouldn't touch. I see 'newbies' come onto the site proudly displaying pictures of cars that I wouldn't have bought. It depends on the individual. I wouldn't buy one just because of a low number either. If it's too far gone, it's too far gone.

[pwd]

This is a very complicated question, since there are many factors involved. The first question any buyer should ask is, "What the car will be worth once restored?" If it's a one owner, low miles, low serial number (first couple hundred off the boat) OR it was owned by someone famous, or a race team for "provenance", then that ramps up the desirability tremendously, regardless of what it would cost to get to a "10-point" car.

Second, are you able to do all the work yourself, or do you "farm out" the pricey work, especially body/paint? If you're a restorer the cost/benefit ratio is different from the guy who's not too handy and has no tools.

Third, is it worth YOUR time to get it there? Even if you're a restorer, you want to start with "good bones", even if it means waiting a few years for the right one to come along. What good is it to "restore" a car that's almost entirely reproduction metal, especially if it's not notoriously famous? As the old saying goes, "I still use my grandfather's hammer, but I've replaced the handle twice and the head once."

Case in point: Back in the 70'w I met an old gentleman who was an incredible hobbyist restorer of Model T's and A's. He'd found a very rare Ford Model "R" in a field in Oklahoma and decided it was worth restoring. The problem was, it was only half there! He fabricated half of that car from scratch by himself. Few people are willing, or able to do that today.

[sblake01]

Well, like you said, that was 'back in the 70s'. I go back even farther that that. In my initial post, I said 'based on an individuals skills, resources, etc.' I'm not saying that I do by any stretch of the imagination, but even if a person does have the skills you speak of, the other resources cost considerably more these days. I'm not a big enough fan of anything, even Datsuns, to take half of serial number HLS300001 (if it exixted) and 'restore' it. Besides would it really be restored if you did that? More like rebuilt/refabricated.

[pwd]

I think we are in agreement. At some point only serious collectors and museums are interested in some cars based on the cost required to restore it. I doubt if the 240Z will ever reach that status, unless it was lucky enough to have been owned by Steve McQueen, or Paul Newman.

[prilofx]

"Obvious insanity in the work done by PO". I love that. So far, though, the insanity has been the worst part of Beeb. I can deal with the rest of it. But in many ways, it was like being handed a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle of a blue sky with a single duck in it without a picture of the way the puzzle is supposed to look. I just keep coming across little things that make me yell, "Why would anyone DO THAT!?"

Latest? tin snip cut out of the metal around the bolt hole where the front driver seat track bolts in. Really. Who cuts out a hole? There's no rust there. Granted, it's not as crazy as some of the stuff I've seen meth freaks do in the name of "fixing" something, but.. ehehe it's pretty close.:stupid:

[Earthcruiser]

I have found that any restoration/modifications and time to complete will be multiplied by two. It is a personal choice because you will not do this as an investment. There are cars on this forum that were free to cars that are valued over six digits. As I said, personal choice. Good luck in your discision.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Earthcruiser

[sblake01]

By 6 digits you mean $100000+? Which cars?

[John Coffey]

Its really, really simple:

Love of Car + Total Budget + Time Available < Restoration Cost + Restoration Time + Frustration

Everything else in this thread is just rationalization.

[hls30.com]

Its really, really simple:

Love of Car + Total Budget + Time Available < Restoration Cost + Restoration Time + Frustration

Everything else in this thread is just rationalization.

For a newby that equation is:

Infinite + ? + ? < ? + ? +?

if ?=x then we may postulate that

an Infinite numerical value + 2X will always > 3X

What I wanted to do here was give examples that the? were not all equivalent, and that what understand/rationalize changes with the accumulation of experience.

[Arne]

Sorry Will, but I don't think we can pin it down any tighter than what John noted. The thresholds will be different for each person, depending on their location and situation.

For example, a7dz (another Coffey, BTW) spent years single-handedly rebuilding his 240Z. I would never have considered his car as more than a parts car - indeed, he admits that he wouldn't have considered that car as a restoration candidate himself, except for one big point. The car was bought new by his mother and he personally got it from her over 30 years ago. So it has been in his family it's entire life. That makes it special to him, and I agree with that. For virtually anyone else in the world, that car would not have been worth the effort and expense. Which proves that there are virtually no hard and fast rules, only situations.

[hls30.com]

Sorry Will, but I don't think we can pin it down any tighter than what John noted. The thresholds will be different for each person, depending on their location and situation....

Your answer makes sense except for the fact I did ask for each persons threshold, not an answer from the collective....

"I dont think we" should be something to the effect of "For me, if the car has Ansen wheels, a sunroof, a bad gas door knob, and a few other small issues, I'll bring her home. But if the car has a sewn leather dash cover, pinstripes, and an engine transplant I won't even walk next door to see it-much less get parts for it through ZPS..."

The point here is what is your threshold...Let others tell their own story...

FYI...this seems to be almost exactly the same posting progression as the thread I started on what makes the Z a classic shortly after I joined the club-then it was Carl I had to get into the "Me" not "We" mode...