paint brand/supplier

[grantf]

so I am going to start rust removal on my 280 soon so far I have a replacement hatch and tabco doglegs are on the way, I still need to get some other repair panels including the hatch deck. Anyhow I plan on spot priming the repairs as I go. so my question is what paint/primer brand have any of you used and where in seattle would I find a paint supplier, I haven't painted a car in about 20 years (I'm getting old wow!).

[JohnnyO]

You have 22 PPG dealers in your area. Click the link below and enter in your zip code.

https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishweb/locator/locator.aspx

If you are just covering up the bare metal until you can get around to finishing it properly I would go with just a basic grey primer.

If you are going to take it to bare metal on the repair spots then continue with the rest of the body you might as well hit it with the DP line of etching primers from PPG after proper treatment of the steel.

I went with PPG because it was available in my area and I have heard good things about it. Another plus was the fact that the supply house was willing to take the time to tell me about the paint and the process which was helpful when choosing my body and paint shop. I knew enough at this point to not get taken advantage of.

There are lots of threads here that relate to paint prep, all offer individual oppinions but I would find a dealer that offers 1 day classes to get you up to speed on the latest technologies as a first step.

Good luck and post some pictures of the process.

John

[pwd]

Paint has changed significantly in the last 20 years... heck in the last 5 years! Whatever paint brand you learn first will probably be the one you'll stick with, so pick a good one. PPG is the one I use because my local paint shop carries it and PPG is consistently high quality. PPG has many lines (systems) of paint from economy to top-end. As previously mentioned, the DP epoxy primers are excellent and provide tough, bare metal protection. Recommendation is to put it on the clean metal surface prior to any Bondo work. I know this is a foreign concept to old school bodymen, but it's PPG's recommendation. Plastic body fillers have improved greatly in the last 10 years too.

The paint Spec Sheets are the only thing you should follow, not the advice of friends, or Internet car forums . Print them out and keep them in a notebook in the garage for reference. Do not try using catalysts/hardeners from different systems, or manufacturers. Also, once opened, the catalysts/hardeners absorb moisture and begin to break down. You won't realize the mistake until you shoot the paint and see it do strange things as it cures. Use only fresh catalyst/hardener, that is, only buy what you know you'll use on that job - 1/2 pint, pint, quart, etc., and date stamp the can, so you know when it's ripe for disposal. A couple of months is probably OK, but ask your paint dealer.

I've used the PPG Omni "economy" line for chassis parts that don't show, and it's good stuff, and much cheaper. PPG is coming out with an improved Omni that I'm considering for one of our "daily driver" projects' exterior paint. I still like the more expensive Deltron (DBC/DCC) for more serious work. They also have a line up from that, if price is no object.

Good luck!

[MikeW]

I still like the more expensive Deltron (DBC/DCC) for more serious work. They also have a line up from that, if price is no object.

Wow, I didn't realize there was a line up from Deltron. As I recall when my car was painted 5 years ago the PPG Deltron came to about $800 for the one gallon needed to paint the whole car.

[oldhemi]

Like Grantf, I plan on doing small sections at a time; IE a dog leg followed by another than some small hatch area. I was planning on using an epoxy primer because I was told that it will seal as opposed to regular old primer.

I understand the need to stay with a "system".

So, is it a good idea to stay withe epoxy or etching primers while the loooonnnngg process is ongoing? I dont plan on the car getting wet, but I do live with Houston humidity.

[JohnnyO]

Mike, is it safe to assume that the cost of the paint + the clear cost $800?

The reason I ask is that my Deltron Clear cost $400 plus catalyst and the paint was $350 plus reducer at "shop" prices this spring. Total of about a grand plus a few hundred for the DP74LF epoxy primer and catalyst and about $300 in K36 primer and catalyst in 2010 prices. So I have about $1600 in paint/clear/primer alone plus about 5 grand in labor from the shop but it's gonna look great!

[JohnnyO]

...So, is it a good idea to stay withe epoxy or etching primers while the loooonnnngg process is ongoing? I dont plan on the car getting wet, but I do live with Houston humidity.

I am not a pro by any means but what I know is that epoxy/etching primer is used for adhesion. It adheres to the bare steel and allows the subsequent layers of primer to adhere to it. Then the primer/sealer allows the base coat to adhere to it. It all goes back to the "system".

I dont think that etching/epoxy primer is designed as a sealer and I don't know how long I would leave that alone on the car without a primer/sealer on top. You might be ok for a month or two but your local ppg shop would be able to tell you for sure.

John

[MikeW]

Yes, I think it was paint+clear for $800. As I recall I went to the paint shop and that was the total bill. The painter picked it up later. I may have paid for primer and such earlier in the process and yes, my total price 5 years ago is very close to what you're indicating. I don't know how much body work you needed so that's obviously a big component of the labor.

[grantf]

Thanks for all of the great info. I will most likely use epoxy primer as a spot primer as I progress, Has anyone used Wesco as a supplier?

[MEZZZ]

Not to jack this thread but to throw out this option that I have read up on in some forums. Not sure that it is show quality but have read good things, especially for the price.

http://www.paintforcars.com/urethane_base_clear_kits_5star.html

[JohnnyO]

Mike, Labor is determined by market. I had a little bit of welding on my floor pan rails (They were pushed up from somebody jacking it up in the wrong place) and I found 3 pinholes of rust in the drivers dog leg so I had him replace both sides. The rest was blocking, priming and some minor dings. I was lucky to find a very well cared for car.

I had him keep track of the time he worked on the car for me and it is about 100 hours so far. The car is ready for base/clear, just waiting for a clear day to trailer it back to the shop. After that he will wet sand and buff.

The fortunate thing for me is he "thought" it was only going to take him about 70 hours total. I had him sign a contract and he kept to his quote and did not exceed the cost.

Lucky me, from what I understand that is a rarity in todays market.

John

[pwd]

The advantage in pricey top end paints is the number of tints available for them and the amount of "solids" suspended in them. The tints make it easier to match to what you want now and years down the road to make up for fading in touch-up work. The solids allow you to achieve the color in the least number of passes. If you buy PPG Omni at half the price of PPG Deltron, it might take twice as many coats to get the same color and depth you want, so be careful. The Clear Coat is the same. Deltron DCU2021 Clear is expensive, about $225/gal "kit", however, it has a lot of solids in it that makes it go down smooth and quick. My paint store guys tell me to buy the Deltron Base Coat and use Limco Clear ($125/gal "kit"). The Clear is not as critical as the Base and is intended to be "sacrificial" anyway.

Another thing to consider for those wanting to do a "sympathetic restoration" of the 240Z is that a Base Coat / Clear Coat system will be drippy glossy and not look at all original. It would be best to go with a Single-Stage paint, which is effectively BC and CC mixed together, still requiring a catalyst/hardener. The guys in the paint store will tell you it won't be as durable as BC/CC because a micron layer of CC provides ultra-violet protection of the pigments beneath. The damaged layer can just be compound away as required. However, my argument is that these cars are long past the day when they were kept outside apartments and dorm rooms in the elements by twenty year olds. We only bring them out on nice days and pamper them, so the Urethane paint, which is incredibly durable to begin with, will last a WHOLE lot longer than the original paint. The cost of Single-Stage might not be cheaper than BC/CC, so prepare for that, and it's a bit more challenging to shoot, but the look is more in keeping with original. PPG makes a Urethane Enamel Single-Stage paint called Delstar, which is good for matching the original Enamel look.

Edited May 15, 2010 by pwd