HLS30-00400 on CL

[HS30-H]

.....looking at my records, it doesn't seem like Datsun ran a bunch of cars of one color, then another bunch of another color.

.... I would say they could have been trying to get a variety onto the first boat out, but then, as another example, #210 is white, #215 is silver, #216 is white, #231 is red, #237 is silver. Other than Chris' cars, I don't see any other back-to-back numbers of the same color, though there could be some.

BTW the brochure notwithstanding, the 231 car is the earliest I have re-corded in red, which leads me to believe that the actual release of the 905 red was a little later. This fits with #400 being originally red, just as Stephen's #488 and John and Bev Bianchi's #450 were. Likewise with the 918 orange, I know of none earlier than #741.

As in so many of your posts, you seem to completely forget ( or just disregard? ) the fact that variants of S30-series Z other than HLS30s destined for the north American market were being made in Nissan Shatai's Hiratsuka plant ( 'Datsun' never made anything, because it was just a badge ) in 1969.

Surely it isn't that difficult for you to imagine Japanese market cars coming through the production system at the same time as your "American" cars? In the 1969 production year over 950 Japanese market cars came down the lines at the Hiratsuka plant. If any of us had been there, I think we couldn't have failed to notice them...

I'm sure that Nissan would indeed have made an effort to get a nice variety of colours onto that "first boat out", but they would have been making equal efforts for the cars that didn't need to go on any boat. As colours were painted in batches, it stands to reason that they would not have needed to be divided by market or variant, just as long as the colour was appropriate.

In the cases of 905 Red and 918 Orange, they were both offered as colours available from the beginning of production on Japanese home market models - so the colours did exist on early production S30-series Zs. In fact, 918 Orange was seen on the Nissan stand at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show. There doesn't seem to be any reason to suggest that they couldn't have been used on 'HLS30'-prefixed cars right from the beginning of production.

I know I've mentioned this to you before ( so I'm probably wasting my time ) but, in discussions of matters historical, your use of "#13", "#210" and "#215" as shorthand is all but meaningless. Those numbers mean almost nothing without their 'Katashiki' prefixes.

Perhaps you could add some of the above to your "records"?

Alan T.

[zcar70]

Alan, the purpose of this board is for discussion, which it does a great job of generating. Opinions and facts are solicited to allow the reader to come to his own conclusions.

It seems that you use this forum as a venue to be critical, condescending and just plain rude. We know you are in Europe. We know you advocate the history of Zs OTHER than North American cars. No need to be so damn nasty. Please shelve the attitude and contribute to the discussions or just go away.

Enough already.

[sblake01]

Sorry, zcar70, but in this case (as in many others) I have to agree with Alan. Rick seems to post alot of information based on his own recolletcions and logic. Sometimes I think he does it just to see the reaction. That's my opinion. Am I being nasty for voicing it? If so then you need to take down the first paragraph in you post.......

[Gary in NJ]

Enough already.

While I find the tone abrasive, the information is quite interesting.

I agree, no need to slight other members. I too am guilty of being "US-Centric" and enjoy being reminded that the Z's were a world-wide platform for Nissan.

[sblake01]

Stop reading the 'tone' and simply read the information. The only reason I said what I said about Rick is that he's the one that was quoted. If he can post what he posts then Alan or anyone else should be able to react to it. This section is 'Open Zcar Discussion', right? The tone is really hard to discern in the written word anyway........

Edited June 22, 2010 by sblake01

[HS30-H]

It seems that you use this forum as a venue to be critical, condescending and just plain rude. We know you are in Europe. We know you advocate the history of Zs OTHER than North American cars. No need to be so damn nasty. Please shelve the attitude and contribute to the discussions or just go away.

No, sorry. I don't accept that accusation.

If you think I'm being "condescending", "rude" and "nasty" then I direct you to the emoticon at the end of my last post. Although I guess you won't see it if you don't want to see it, it was put there for a reason. It's meant to indicate a reasonably friendly tone.

I've pointed much of this stuff out to Rick several times before, and the message still doesn't seem to be getting through. I can't discount the possibility that some of what he does is being done on purpose, but I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt. His first post on this forum seemed - to me anyway - to be aimed at ruffling feathers and sticking a flag in some territory. Perhaps you might want to go back and have a look to remind yourself of that time? I wasn't the only one who thought we were being sent up. But up to and including now, I believe I'm being sufficiently polite and respectful. And unlike you, I haven't told anybody to "go away"....

This forum is probably one of the best on the web ( in the English language, anyway ) for getting down to the nitty-gritty about these old Japanese cars. It's a shame to see it - after all we've been through - seeming to believe that the story of the "American" market cars is the only story. How can we possibly discuss what turned up in north America, or what was going on in the factory that made these cars, without taking into account everything that was being made there? To talk about batches of HLS30s being painted, whilst ignoring the fact that nearly twice as many Japanese market S30-prefixed and PS30-prefixed cars were going through the very same paint shop at the same time seems positively careless!

I suggest that if you've got any further objection to my posts that you simply use the 'IGNORE' function. If you want to take it up personally with me, then send me a PM. As for Rick, I'm rather inclined to believe that he's cool enough to take a little pointed criticism on the chin without even flinching. He might even give a little back, which will be well taken. That's the way we eventually get somewhere with all this....

Alan T.

[zcar70]

I agree with you as far as content, not everyone who posts here is correct.

What I do object to are the nasty, sarcastic comments which are unnecessary and rude. You can agree to disagree without being that way. It's easy to be aggressive and nasty from behind the safety of a computer screen.

I would prefer to make my own determination on what is posted rather than have one member abuse another, however it may be intended, in this forum.

Edited June 22, 2010 by zcar70

[HS30-H]

What I do object to are the nasty, sarcastic comments which are unnecessary and rude. You can agree to disagree without being that way. It's easy to be aggressive and nasty from behind the safety of a computer screen.

Once again, you are accusing me of being "nasty", "sarcastic" and "aggressive" ( where? how? ) whilst you ignore the circumstances and backstory. Believe me, I'm intending to be adequately polite and restrained. There are no members of this forum who are beyond reproach. No holy cows.

What's this "behind the safety of a computer screen" stuff? I'll stand by what I say and how I say it in front of ANYBODY on this forum face-to-face, you included. That's because I believe I'm being reasonable, sufficiently respectful and as accurate I can be in what I write.

If you think I'm just some kind of keyboard warrior then that's your choice, but I would have hoped you'd seen enough of me on this forum by now to understand that, with me, what you see is pretty much what you get.

And thanks for reminding me that I'm "...in Europe...".

Alan T.

[sblake01]

I would prefer to make my own determination on what is posted rather than have one member abuse another, however it may be intended, in this forum.

You seem to be the one making that determination. Not only about what is posted but also it's intent. As I said:

Stop reading the 'tone' and simply read the information. The tone is really hard to discern in the written word anyway........

To which I'll throw it to back your're own words:

Enough already.

Edited June 22, 2010 by sblake01

[rtaylor]

OK. Someone mentioned the assembly line in Japan. I "borrowed" this picture from Esprist as It was provided to him by Mr. K. Endo.. If my old eyes do not deceive me. I see my car in front, then an orange car, then a red car. Anybody see anything else? Now we can put this to bed once and for all. .

[HS30-H]

If my old eyes do not deceive me. I see my car in front, then an orange car, then a red car. Anybody see anything else? Now we can put this to bed once and for all. .

No, we can't even let it put its pyjamas on.

That's not the paint shop, so it doesn't say anything about batches of cars during the painting process....

*Please do not see this as an attack on you, your family, the USA and its dependants and/or anybody else. Your rights are not affected*

Cordially, yr hmble svnt in EU, etc etc

Alan T.

[geezer]

Ha Ha! Yep, that's your car leading the way Randy. It would be quite an eye opening experience for most of us to see the actual progression of events as a car travels through an automobile production facility. They change position in the lineup several times during the build for a number of reasons. There are a few critical points along the way where it is crucial to have the cars strictly in a predetermined order, so as to mesh with other lines merging together, such as the chassis line, where the cars in the posted pic, shown on the highline are lowered onto the drivelines and before that occurs, the engines have to be scheduled to coincide with the remainder of the chassis components. In '69/'70 this was accomplished using a "broadcast system", which was a mainframe linked printer system that was fed all pertinent information to all locations in the assembly plant. This enabled everyone to stay on the same page (pun intended) and produce perfectly orchestrated assemblies that came together to form the specified vehicle, no matter the model or market variation. There was more than one "sending" from the broadcast system also, where changes and updates were made/added, but only at allowable points, so work already completed was not effected.

I would have loved to have taken the Nissan Shatai Hiratsuka plant tour back in the day to see our beloved cars being built. It's still fun, piecing together clues and seeing new (to me) data and pics put here on this site from our fellow members. I think we all do draw our own conclusions and occasionally change opinions from the evidence presented. To me it's all speculative and just a hobby to have fun with.