BRE Spoilers and Spooks are back

[ajmcforester]

I am referring to the additional upper and lower ducting shown in these pictures of an original early BRE spook that came on one of my cars. I don't think that is visible in the photo.

-Mike

Your right, can I use your picture in reference to my contact and ask, because I'm restoring close to how the car was sold and this was a part on my car?

I found out about the spook when talking to the original owner, he even told me how the original was broken in 74 or 75 (I'd need to check my note for the date). It also explained, why the PS door was a different color, why I had one plastic headlight bucket and one metal bucket. Lucky all damaged metal was replaced and none of the metal welded to the body was damaged or the American Racing rim. I just wish I could say that about its second accident (last owners damage), but nothing that can't be repaired correctly.

[HS30-H]

Who in this discussion has anything related to selling things, I won't work for BRE.

I'm not 'attacking' anyone, let alone you. The people who have something to sell are BRE, and they are the ones claiming that Pete Brock designed that rear spoiler. I don't believe that he did. It's all quite simple. This is a Forum, yes?

I have several early Z car book that mention Carrol Shelby's work on the 240z, the roadsters and the Toyota 2000GT. Mostly on basic engine performance, driveline, and basic American marketing. I don't think a lot of drastic things were done, it sounded like some basic inquiry from Datsun.

Please can you tell me the titles of these books, as I would like to read them too? Authors? Publishers? Any clues at all? I feel like I've missed out. I've read - and heard - plenty of stories about the S30-series Z, but proof of Carroll Shelby's involvement is one I can't remember.

I don't know if your on the attack or just having a discussion and coming off wrong, but please read your posts a little more if you won't want to come off as attacking everyone.

As I said above, I'm not "on the attack". I think we can pride ourselves on this forum for trying to see through the fog and get down to the truth about these cars and matters historical, so stories which I personally believe to be apocryphal written on a website which is selling something ( BRE ) are certainly within our range and collective remit. If they are true, then they'll hold water. If they are not, then we are all the better for it ( I believe ).

Your first reply to me quite obviously misunderstood my initial points ( I wasn't talking about the 'Spook', and this is nothing to do with 'Europe' ), so what I am supposed to say?

If you're looking for an example of a personal attack post, take a peep at post #10 ( but mind you don't slip on the vomit ).

Apologies if I come across to you in a way that you don't like, but I assure you that is not the intention. I'm just interested in the facts.

Alan T.

[ajmcforester]

Please can you tell me the titles of these books, as I would like to read them too? Authors? Publishers? Any clues at all? I feel like I've missed out. I've read - and heard - plenty of stories about the S30-series Z, but proof of Carroll Shelby's involvement is one I can't remember.

Alan T.

Let me go through and check the books so I direct you to the right ones, a couple of the ones I have are from Australia, and the US so I don't know hard they will be to find. Their was not much detail on what Shelby did just a mention that he had a part.

It would not surprise me to find out BRE had some influence in the Z they were having good success on the track with the roadsters, and helped out with the marketing of the Z. It just makes since. Yes BRE are out to sell something, but looking at the sight they are more for nostalgia.

I think the release of the parts have been from a large interest in the Z again, and people calling to get original styled parts for their Z cars. I don't see any true performance parts. I think the demand is their, look how many reproductions are out their. That detail is small when looking at the overall picture. Not to say it isn't important especially when understanding the cars history.

[moonpup]

....snip....If you're looking for an example of a personal attack post, take a peep at post #10 ( but mind you don't slip on the vomit ). .... snip....

Check out post #72 on the following link and then translate it if you'd like to see what a real "personal" attack looks like. :stupid:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38906&page=3

[sblake01]

xxxxxxxxx

Edited July 18, 2010 by sblake01
No relevance to thread

[ajmcforester]

I emailed about the enclosed duct that Mike B posted without the picture just a description.

Direct from the Email:

I'm woefully without a lot of details. I tracked the shop down that made

the parts originally for BRE, talked to the new owner (who was a worker

there in the '70s and now owns the place), and he didn't know what he had

but said he never throws anything away. Peter and I stopped by there on a

trip to LA and Peter and the guy went thru the pieces so quickly I didn't

get a chance to take any pictures. The guy or Peter would grab a piece and

Peter would say: "yeah that's our..., yeah that's our..." etc. I made a

list and then worked with the guy on how he'd sell them to us, how they'd

get shipped, pricing, etc.

Now with that said, Peter says the brake vents were not an enclosed tube as

they couldn't be fabricated that way with a mold. So the ducting that runs

out the back is open on the top and then there was an additional piece that

fit on top of the ducting to make it an enclosed tube. We didn't ask the

shop if they still had the mold for that small piece. I've now asked Peter

why we didn't look into that and he said it was because the primary purpose

of the spook was down force and not cooling the brakes and even fewer people

today would use the piece to actually cool the brakes. With all that said,

I'll call the shop in CA and see if the guy still has the mold. Even if he

doesn't it shouldn't take much to make one.

I kept his info out since I didn't ask if that would be OK, and some personal information for my order.

I'm not posting to this tread anymore I've seen this spitball war one to many times.

Edited July 18, 2010 by ajmcforester
Forgot what I was going to post

[HS30-H]

Check out post #72 on the following link and then translate it if you'd like to see what a real "personal" attack looks like. :stupid:

moonpup,

You're making this thread all about me. Have you got anything to add to the subject that's being discussed, or are you so fixated with my scent that you can't see anything else?

Where's the "Laidback purist" that you portray yourself as, and where is your sense of humour ( oh sorry, 'humor' )?

Sprinkle a few morsels of conjecture / opinion / evidence in amongst your contributions occasionally, for crying out loud. All I ever see you posting are ebay links and comments about what I'm saying or doing. Post something worth reading, worth some discussion. Where's the content? Got any evidence of Carroll Shelby / Pete Brock input on the design and engineering of Nissan's S30-series Z car?

Anything.....?

Alan T.

[MikeW]

Perhaps the text on the BRE site changed in the last few hours but I see the following for the rear spoiler.

This BRE Datsun 240Z Rear Spoiler (highlighted in yellow above) is similar to the one Datsun offered for the Zs at the time but is not identical. The rear spoiler BRE ran on their 1970-71 Championship 240Z racers was slightly higher so as to be more effective at the higher speeds the BRE Zs would run and be balanced with the affects of the front BRE air dam. It'll fit 1970-1973 240Zs.

The text that Alan quoted for the rear spoiler is closer to what is currently stated for the front air dam.

This BRE Datsun 240Z Air Dam (highlighted in yellow above) was designed by Peter Brock, as a derivative of his famous "spook" concept he created for the BRE Datsun roadsters in 1969. This particular BRE Air Dam design ran on our 1971 Championship 240Z racer. It'll fit 1970-1973 240Zs.

Hopefully this was a simple copy and paste error that was unintentional.

[HS30-H]

Perhaps the text on the BRE site changed in the last few hours but I see the following for the rear spoiler.

You're right, Mike. They've changed it. In reaction to this thread, no doubt.

Hopefully this was a simple copy and paste error that was unintentional.

They illustrate the ribbed rear spoiler ( as seen on - for example - the original #46 BRE race car ) but I believe I'm right in saying that the taller rear spoiler was later, and was not ribbed. It was sold with Interpart no.2701010 in the later ( early 1973 ) Interpart catalog.

Does anyone ( Ron Carter? ) know for sure that the ribbed rear spoiler seen on the #46 car was actually taller than the factory 432-R rear spoiler? They look the same to me, whilst the later ( smooth ) Interpart rear spoiler does look taller than the later - factory - unribbed rear spoiler.

Open question: So which rear spoiler are they putting back into production? The ribbed one, or the ( taller? ) smooth one?

Alan T.

[gnosez]

So what name would you give this spoiler on the BSR/Newman 280Z?

It's much taller than the BRE version and more upright.

Not sure of the history, designer, etc.

Alan, your thoughts....

Edited July 18, 2010 by gnosez

[HS30-H]

gnosez,

I'm fairly sure that one was a purely American design. Certainly not a 'factory' / Sports Option part in Japan as far as I'm aware.

By late 1972, the Nissan works race cars in Japan were using the big three-piece rear spoilers, like this:

[Mike B]

Your right, can I use your picture in reference to my contact and ask, because I'm restoring close to how the car was sold and this was a part on my car?

Sorry for the late reply, I was out all day after my post. Anyway, sure, feel free to use the pictures, although I believe I contacted the same person you did about the spoiler before I left and I got a similar reply to what you posted.

-Mike