Two frame rails at TC rod-is there a "floor" between them?

[Mikes Z car]

Hi all,

Is there a "floor" (see pic) between the two frame rails that are on top of each other between the TC rod and firewall? I am trying to spray anti corrosion material into the frame rail by inserting a wand into a hole in the front frame rail located by the radiator support and I want to be sure I am hitting all cavities and I have seen different opinions. Picture used without permission from 240dkw (thank you).

Mike

Edited October 12, 2010 by Mikes Z car

[jmortensen]

Yes, there is a floor.

[240dkw]

Mike: I might of misunderstood your PM about the question of a floor between the rail and TC box. Jon is correct, here is a photo of a rail I cut off a parts car.

Dan

[Mikes Z car]

Dan,

Sorry I wasn't more clear in the PM I sent you but the PM process won't let me attach a picture which I tried to do to clarify. Thanks for posting the picture.

Mike

Mike: I might of misunderstood your PM about the question of a floor between the rail and TC box. Jon is correct, here is a photo of a rail I cut off a parts car.

Dan

[CarolinaTZ]

I'm planning to spray inside my frame rails also. What type of wand setup are you using? What are you spraying in there? Thanks, Joe

[Mikes Z car]

I'm planning to spray inside my frame rails also. What type of wand setup are you using? What are you spraying in there? Thanks, Joe

Joe,

This may be more info than you wanted and I will apologize for that however the info may provide possible data points to further the idea of coating the interior of the frame rails.

The wand I am using comes in Transtar kit number 4471, made by

Transtar Autobody Technologies

2040 Heiserman Dr

Brighton, MI 48114

Ph (800) 824-2843, Fax (800) 477 7923

I got my wand at a local auto paint store for $25 (I thought that was a lot for a wand).

Please see attached pictures for more info, either this post or a next one as I will exceed the 10 file attach limit. Usual disclaimers apply, I don't own any stock in Transtar, don't know anyone at Transtar etc. The wand in that kit I am using is three feet long and comes with two wands with a spray nozzle and a third wand with no nozzle possibly to be used as an extension. The wand fits Transtar amber #4423 spray cans but may fit other cans. With the Spray I am using the wands are reusable apparently as long as I soak them in hot soapy water afterwards. The spray is Transtar 4423 ($13 a can here) which is what the body shop that did my floor pan welding recommended though I have no other info to suggest it might be good. It had a low viscosity when I applied it, sprayed as a fine mist and freely overflowed out of any available hole. A week afterwards it has a waxy consistency where I checked the overflow from my car as it got on the street. I hole sawed large 2" diameter holes in the floor pans in the middle of the frame rail which is larger I would think than anyone would normally need. This was to access the engine frame rail near the firewall that I could not reach with the 3 ft wand from hole #1 (see frame rail location of 3 holes I used on attached drawing) in the frame rail at the front of the car by the radiator support. There are other (bolt) holes my drawing doesn't show however the Transtar tubing is stiff and pretty much needs a fairly straight run as it is inserted without turning too much. The 2" holes were also because I wanted to look inside the frame rails with a cheap boresight camera I made from a $29 pinhole camera I got off of eBay which needed a 2" hole. Whatever is just big enough for the wand you want to use I imagine would work great. I had to slightly enlarge hole #1 in front for the wand nozzle to fit through by driving a handy nail that I found that is 9 inches long (what a monster) into the hole.

A tricky aspect of using the Transtar spray is that considerable pressure builds up in the wand which has a tendency to cause it to pop off of the can if you slightly snag something as you pull the wand out while spraying. When this happens it takes a moment for the spray to stop as the pressure in the wand is relieved on your hand. I plan on using this spray on the interior of the frame rails through the floor pan holes I made but think I may cover the can and the end of the wand with a trash bag and/or cover the interior of the car to keep spray out of there. It may be possible to extend the wand to 6 ft long by joining the 3 ft extension tube that has no nozzle to a wand that does. I tried this using heat shrink and tape to join two 3 ft sections but the pressure in the tubing was too much and the joint leaked. Someone gave me some 7/32 rubber tubing to try that fits tightly on the tubing to join two 3ft sections but I would think that joint would have to be taped well to prevent it from blowing apart during use.

Mike

01_Transtar_spray_can.txt

[Mikes Z car]

Here are the rest of the pictures I took. In case it matters to someone I made the 2" holes by drilling a pilot 1/4" hole and then used a stiff wire bent at a 90 degree angle to rotate back and forth in the hole to tell where I was as far as getting centered on the frame rail. I repeated that with a second hole if necessary.

As a part of this for future spraying I vacuumed out the bottom of the dogleg with a piece of 3/4 inch tubing taped to a vacuum cleaner. I was amazed at how much dirt had gotten in there. I picked up the vinyl tubing an inch or so and pushed it back into the hole at various angles to maximize the surface I was able to make contact with and clean.

The pictures of inside the frame rail show a couple of curved reinforcement plates about 2 ft forward of the passenger firewall near the crossmember. It is good to be gentle with the Transtar tubing in case you run into one of those obstructions. Another idea is to gently twist the tubing as it goes in since the tubing has a slight curve to it as this greatly assists getting the tubing past any blockages inside the frame rail.

I took off work for two weeks and spent time working on the Z. I probably won't get too much else done this year as the weather is about to get too cold.

Mike

Edited October 23, 2010 by Mikes Z car
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[CarolinaTZ]

Mike, not too much information at all! That's the kind of description I was looking for. I appreciate the time and thought you put into this and this may be the very product I end up using. It and the nozzle is what I had in mind but had not read any opinions on it so, I wasn't sure if it was any good. I am POR15ing some areas and what I can't get at with it will get this sort of treatment...namely inside the frame rails. Thanks for sharing.

Joe

[c240z]

Wow this helps me out to thanks so much to. I'm getting things ready to start the same project. I'm putting new floors in and using a set of Bad Dog Parts rear fraim rails to repair my T/C bracket. What is the best way to remove the black tar under coating? I see from the picks yours are nice and clean.

[Mikes Z car]

Thanks Joe and c240z,

Joe,

You are very welcome.

c240z,

I don't have all the tar off yet, I wish. That shiny stuff is just paint. I got the tar off the hard way, I chiseled it off with a putty knife but there are other posts if you use the search function that will reveal better techniques than the one I used. From memory one way is to use dry ice or just wait until January then hit with a hammer and the other way is to use a heat gun.

I might mention that I used trash bags today to protect the interior of the car from spray as I used the holes on the inside of the car in the floor to access the engine frame rail. I put a bigger hole in the bottom of the bag than the floor holes and taped the bag up to the edge of the hole so when I pulled the spray wand out too far while it was still spraying I didn't get anything on the interior of the car. I taped the bags up and out from the hole on all sides. In the same way I put trash bags around those three holes on the side of the car normally covered by that finisher right behind the seats (and put the bags over the seats) so I could spray in down low in the dogleg. I also got the rocker panels though I want to evaluate somehow whether I got both sides of that "welding plate" that is inside the rocker panels that may have blocked off some of my spray. The bags helped a lot. I also pushed the wand back and over the rear wheel well from that highest of the three holes behind the seats but I don't know how much good I did with that. Also I put a clear trash bag over the spray can and tubing (my hand stayed outside of the clear bag) to keep the spray contained when the tubing would pop off the can. The clear bag helped me put the tubing back on the can. That bag helped a lot to keep that stuff off my hands and me. It is sticky. I have used most of 3 cans of that amber anti corrosion material so far.

Mike

Edited October 22, 2010 by Mikes Z car
grammar

[240znz]

That's all good info but maybe use a closed rubber grommet to close the cabin hole instead of steel and self tapers. Looks kinda factory too.

While you are there, whip off the inner door threshold scuff plate to access the holes in the side rails. Get the nozzle in there to.

[Mikes Z car]

Good idea on the closed grommets. By coincidence I noticed closed grommets in Shuck's (now Oreilly's) auto supply the other day, most wouldn't need the 2" diameter that I do though I did see smaller ones there. Going under the scuff plate would work, maybe less spray risk in the car going that way, easier access too. At the time I already had the rocker panel side flaps pulled up for other work.

Not sure anyone would have a use for it but when I get further along with the 3D sketchup drawing of the frame rail I will put it on my blog. I understand sketchup drawings can be pulled into Autocad as a 3D wireframe drawing. I have been working on and off on that drawing for a year.