'76 280Z Question on dist/manifold vacuum, dist timing, fuel pressure, brake booster

[cozye]

On the clutch fluid, it is too dark. That's degraded rubber from the seals and hydraulic hose. I flushed mine out completely and got it clean again, however it only took a few weeks for it to turn black again.

I decided to buy a new master, slave, and hose. It didn't cost much, and it's one of those things that you can check off and not worry about again. I don't want to be one of these guys who gets stuck in 1st gear when my slave cylinder starts bypassing and I can't get it out of gear. I figure I've got all new brakes from top to bottom, it's a good idea to refresh the hydraulics on the clutch too.

[Jennys280Z]

Oh no. Another adventure!

I don't even want to crawl on the floor under my car it gives me the creeps. Any work I do on my car it's so much better when I'm standing up and bending over.

Which makes me wonder how people who get these coil-overs work on their car. I can barely get my floor jack to the right spot under my car now. It scrapes a little and my car has only been "lowered" by way of the new shocks which was probably only 1-2".

A new clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder, and hose. Hmmmmmmmm...

ALL my brake cylinders were shot after resurrecting my car. Not surprised if my clutch cylinders are on their last legs too. I'll have to look up some prices here soon.

[cozye]

Oh no. Another adventure!

I don't even want to crawl on the floor under my car it gives me the creeps. Any work I do on my car it's so much better when I'm standing up and bending over.

Which makes me wonder how people who get these coil-overs work on their car. I can barely get my floor jack to the right spot under my car now. It scrapes a little and my car has only been "lowered" by way of the new shocks which was probably only 1-2".

A new clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder, and hose. Hmmmmmmmm...

ALL my brake cylinders were shot after resurrecting my car. Not surprised if my clutch cylinders are on their last legs too. I'll have to look up some prices here soon.

I purchased mine "beck arnley" from Rockauto.com. They have super fast shipping and great prices. Plus you can choose from multiple brands. I use MSA plenty for more "z" special parts, but for just regular maintenance items I've been real impressed with rockauto's setup. I'm pretty sure a lot of Z owners use them.

[cozye]

and for getting under the car, just use jack stands, and some big blocks of wood for extra insurance

[Jennys280Z]

Thanks cozye I'll check them out. I have BlackDragon's prices as a frame of reference so far. If I buy a new master cylinder, slave cylinder and hose it'll cost about $70 plus shipping. However, they have rebuild kits for the cylinders. If I buy the repair kits and the hose it's only $35 plus shipping. There are no pictures of just what these repair kits are...but if it's simple stuff like rubber washers and o-rings and stuff I could probably do that myself, right?

[cozye]

Thanks cozye I'll check them out. I have BlackDragon's prices as a frame of reference so far. If I buy a new master cylinder, slave cylinder and hose it'll cost about $70 plus shipping. However, they have rebuild kits for the cylinders. If I buy the repair kits and the hose it's only $35 plus shipping. There are no pictures of just what these repair kits are...but if it's simple stuff like rubber washers and o-rings and stuff I could probably do that myself, right?

Yeah, but you are supposed to hone it out too.

[Jennys280Z]

I just bled the brakes. Well I think I did at least. I think I was opening up the bleeder screw(s) too much and letting air into it while bleeding, so I had to repeat the process too many times. Presuming I did this, it seems that the air intake through the bleeder expelled out the jar easily enough. The pressure from the fluid in the system was likely pushing it out quickly like that.

But, I gave up in frustration when bubbles wouldn't stop coming out. But then I felt the pedal with my foot and it feels tight. *shrugs*

I heard a weird groaning sound coming from my booster the first few times I bled the brakes (we pushed on the brake pedal) too. I hope that's normal. I haven't had any motor vac going through it yet. Will connect my battery and start the motor in a few days *crosses fingers*

Edited January 11, 2011 by Jennys280Z

[Jennys280Z]

Yeah, but you are supposed to hone it out too.

Unless I can do that by hand, I'll just find the cylinders to buy and replace the ones I have now.

[cozye]

I just bled the brakes. Well I think I did at least. I think I was opening up the bleeder screw(s) too much and letting air into it while bleeding, so I had to repeat the process too many times. Presuming I did this, it seems that the air intake through the bleeder expelled out the jar easily enough. The pressure from the fluid in the system was likely pushing it out quickly like that.

But, I gave up in frustration when bubbles wouldn't stop coming out. But then I felt the pedal with my foot and it feels tight. *shrugs*

I heard a weird groaning sound coming from my booster the first few times I bled the brakes (we pushed on the brake pedal) too. I hope that's normal. I haven't had any motor vac going through it yet. Will connect my battery and start the motor in a few days *crosses fingers*

If bubbles are still coming out, you aren't done. Your helper isn't letting off the brake pedal while the bleed screw is open are they? You will need to bleed the master cylinder, then you will need to bleed through all the wheel cylinders too, starting from the farthest away, which is the drivers rear due to the way the lines are run and circle around ccw.

I usually make several passes until I'm 100% positive no air is in the lines. The pedal should feel solid once you are done and not get anywhere near the floor.

[Jennys280Z]

If bubbles are still coming out, you aren't done. Your helper isn't letting off the brake pedal while the bleed screw is open are they? You will need to bleed the master cylinder, then you will need to bleed through all the wheel cylinders too, starting from the farthest away, which is the drivers rear due to the way the lines are run and circle around ccw.

I usually make several passes until I'm 100% positive no air is in the lines. The pedal should feel solid once you are done and not get anywhere near the floor.

Sage advice cozye!

My FSM says only to bleed at the master cylinder. Which is what I did.

The brakes are tight, tighter than ever maybe. The pedal only goes half way down if that, with just typical foot pressure. I want to run the motor and get some motor vacuum through this new booster, and (if my motor even starts ) make sure my part isn't defective.

It's making some noise and that bothers me a little. It'd be as good as silent vs. the noise of the engine running though. Also the studs on the front of it didn't look straight (normal) to me. One of them seemed to be protruding from the face of the booster at a slight angle. The bolts went on easily enough though, so I dunno.

You've got me wondering Cozy, with the motor running, will the brake pedal get a lot softer than it is now?

And also, how many times might bleeding be necessary? In the bleeding operation shouldn't I expect to see gradually less bubbles with time? I figured with the air that I introduced from having the master off, bleeding both front and rear 2-3 times would have been sufficient. I ended up doing it 7-8 times and there was as many bubbles the 8th time as the 1st. Though they took awhile to come out in the jar (because they had just begun traveling down the tube as I opened the valve).

I think the thing that gave me difficulty was the bleeder screws on the master seemed to get loose very quickly. So much so, that if my wrench on a tight bleeder was pointed at 10 'oclock, if I took the wrench to 1 or 2'oclock I was already introducing air. No further than 12'oclock, or I wouldn't have a successful bleed. There must be some negative pressure built up seems to want to suck air in through the valve and push it down the tube.

Maybe I'm just kidding myself and am interpreting my experiences wrong. I'm a newbie and I'll have newbie problems like this...which is why this website rocks, btw. :classic:

How much torque should I put on the firewall bolts and master cylinder bolts btw? I didn't torque anything down so to eliminate noises maybe I should apply a "final" tightening on everything? Anyone with a guesstimate of torque for these?

Edited January 12, 2011 by Jennys280Z

[Jennys280Z]

You can see a stud is crooked in the photograph of the booster above, before putting the MC on. Did Parts Geek geek me on a bad part at a reduced price?

Anyhoo, I'm also thankful for running into this bit of advice!

http://www.ehow.com/how_7585213_remove-key-lock-datsun-280z.html

Edited January 12, 2011 by Jennys280Z

[Bonzi Lon]

You might try this method, I did and it worked. It is very messy so have plenty of rags around. http://www.zcar.com/70-83_tech_discussion_forum/1971_240z_no_rear_brakes_883872.msg2608979.html#msg2608979

I will add this was done while the master was on the car as it didn't work doing it (bleading) on the bench.

Bonzi Lon

Edited January 12, 2011 by Bonzi Lon