JDM Headlight cover difference.

[HS30-H]

Just to add a side-by-side comparison of mounting screw positions:

EDIT: Note that this is a shot of two different L/H covers - one on top of the other - to illustrate differences.

Edited December 1, 2010 by HS30-H
Added clarification

[Mike B]

Yes, OEM on some 'early' ( ) Japanese market cars:

Alan, didn't all S30s (at least through 1973) get the same style wipers? Those look like the same ones on North American market 240Zs (except they are the RHD version of course).

-Mike

Edited December 1, 2010 by Mike B
correct typo

[HS30-H]

Mike,

At least two different 'stock' wiper blades in the Japanese market models before the end of 1971 ( 26370-E4100 and 26370-E8700 ). I know the E4100 was the same as the one offered on the north American and European / UK export market cars.

'Winter Pack' wipers - more suited to cope with snow and ice - were also available in Japan ( as were electrically heated front 'screens, for example ) although I don't believe they ever showed up in the early Japanese parts lists. You can however see them in the R-Drive export parts lists [ B6365-89914 ASSY-BLADE WINDSHIELD ( SNOW ) L=400, and B6365-89915 ASSY-BLADE WINDSHIELD ( SNOW ) L=340 ). I would have thought some regions of north America, and especially Canada, would have some 'snow' wiper blades?

But, like the headlamp covers, I don't think the part numbers tell us the whole story.

Alan T.

[Mike B]

I would have thought some regions of north America, and especially Canada, would have some 'snow' wiper blades?

Not that I am aware of. The only cold weather part difference I have seen for North America was the battery, which had a different specific gravity for cold regions.

Ok, back to the headlight cover discussion.

-Mike

[HS30-H]

I'm not meaning to be argumentive. Its safe to say I'm out of my league, when discussing some of these topics. To me its like a big jigsaw puzzle. Sometimes the pieces fit, sometimes they don't.

I think we are all in the same boat here, Ron. I wouldn't class you as being 'out of your league'. Quite the opposite, in fact.

To me, the photo from the 1969 Tokyo auto show qualifies as "early" only in the sense of the time period. I would not testify either way in a court of law, to what type of headlight cover I am seeing in the photograph. I just couldn't say with any reasonable amount of certainty. I think we have all been fooled in similar circumstances. Chrome or polished stainless can distort quite readily in these old photographs, especially with the lighting provided and reflections created.

Prototypes, pre production or pilot cars could be outfitted with just about anything the designers were developing, shown in the media, previewed by the public but never put into production. We've all seen it.

Points taken, but I still firmly believe I can see those distinctive mounting screw positions on the photos of the 432 at the '69 Tokyo show. Here's the front-on photo again, and this time I've circled those screws in red. Does anyone agree with me that these are indeed mounting screws, rather than reflections / distortions?

[Carl Beck]

Yes - I have pictures in some books that show them a little more clearly than they can be presented on a computer screen. Using a magnifying glass they are clearly visible.

They seem to match the drawing Kats submitted.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Carl Beck

[geezer]

They seem to match the drawing Kats submitted.

Looking at Kats drawing, he depicts the example on the left as being representative of the 3 holed version found on the 432 at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show. I agree with the notation made on the drawing. It clearly is a prototype version that never went into production.

The second example in Kats drawing is the version that has been referred to as "later" in this thread and more than likely, not thought of as "later" to someone more familiar with what has been a common place sight in Japan.

This is what I believe contributes to the confusion.

Athough the third example on the right in Kats drawing has a notation as being found on the 432R, it is not a common sight in Japan, but I have pointed out that it was listed in the earliest parts lists in Japan. It is the only OEM version that was available over the counter in North America.

Putting prototype versions aside, and the perhaps confusing "early" or "later", etc. labels aside, I still maintain there is no refuting the fact of which production version came first. Not that it even matters to me or anyone else. Its just that I wanted to explain why I tried to correct Esprist, on the way he referred to the different versions. I possibly could have been the only one thinking this way. In the spirit of the threads original title and purpose (no pun intended), I felt compelled to point out in terms of early and later, just to get the facts correct, which I now understand, wouldn't seem right, depending on your "world perspective" or knowledge of what is "in the books". The addition of "whole story" and inclusion of prototype parts that don't even have assigned part numbers, in my view, just complicates the threads original intent. It is interesting none the less.

Edited December 1, 2010 by geezer
added Kats drawing

[Carl Beck]

Hi Ron:

Here is another picture from the 69 Tokoyo Motor Show..

at 1200 dpi you can see the screw better - I've marked it in the picture below.

It might just be the angle of the photos - but the Orange 432 seems to have the front mounting screw lower, or closer to the bumper - than the front view Alan posted.

What we need is picture taken at the same angle as the two I copied above - of Alan's lower trim ring in his picture of the pair together.

FWIW,

Carl

[geezer]

Well guys, after studying all of these photographs, I came up with a mixed bag. I will tell you first off that I am the wrong guy to make a determination that can be relied on, with a few of them.

Anyhow, post #72 was easy. Both of the Works 240Z rally cars are fitted with the same type. I think it is obvious, that we can tag them with an E4126 suffix.

In post #73 suffix E4126 is sitting atop suffix E8726.

Now we get to the tough ones. In post #77 the highlighted red circles sure do seem to indicate the fastening screws. They appear very concentric also, but I would be hesitant to bet the farm on what I think I am seeing. I don't know if it is a case of stubborness on my part to concede that it is a suffix E8726 or maybe some different part, or if it is an example of "camera trickery".

The same goes for post #78, the side by side photos. It sure appears to be a screw, in the same location, on the left hand photo, just as in post #77, but its taken from the same photo, isn't it? The right hand photo in the side by side photos is a suffix E4126.

The left hand photo in post #80 is a little tricky, I think because of the camera angle, but I would be tempted to say that it is a suffix E4126. OK, lets hear what you guys are seeing.

Edited December 2, 2010 by geezer

[HS30-H]

Ron,

You're confusing me....

Looking at Kats drawing, he depicts the example on the left as being representative of the 3 holed version found on the 432 at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show. I agree with the notation made on the drawing. It clearly is a prototype version that never went into production.

So, you think the headlamp covers seen on the '69 Tokyo Show 432 are "prototypes" - but then you say:

Now we get to the tough ones. In post #77 the highlighted red circles sure do seem to indicate the fastening screws. They appear very concentric also, but I would be hesitant to bet the farm on what I think I am seeing. I don't know if it is a case of stubborness on my part to concede that it is a suffix E8726 or maybe some different part, or if it is an example of "camera trickery".

The same goes for post #78, the side by side photos. It sure appears to be a screw, in the same location, on the left hand photo, just as in post #77, but its taken from the same photo, isn't it?

The left hand photo in post #80 is a little tricky, I think because of the camera angle, but I would be tempted to say that it is a suffix E4126.

As all of the '69 Tokyo Show 432 pictures depict the same car , the headlamp covers seen on it cannot be both "prototypes" and E4126 ( or E8726 )....

Personally, I'm not entirely convinced that the '69 Tokyo Show 432 had only three fixing screws on its headlamp covers ( as depicted in Kats' drawing ). I know that Kats has looked into this quite closely, but I'd like to see more conclusive evidence. There were many pictures published of that car 'in period', and I believe I can count four fixing screws on each cover by cross-referencing the photos taken from different angles, even though I don't have one diamond bullet photo that shows them all clearly and indisputably.....

I believe - and hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong - that Kats' sketch and notations were an effort to begin understanding all this. I don't think he meant them to be 'Gospel'.

And I still have trouble believing that the E8726 suffixed covers could have existed - using that E8726 suffix - as long as one full year before the E8725 suffixed ZG type covers first appeared. Anyone care to speculate?

What we need is picture taken at the same angle as the two I copied above - of Alan's lower trim ring in his picture of the pair together.

Er, I'll have to remember where it went first! I've bought and sold quite a few of these things over the time I've been a Z owner. Let me look into it.....

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Perhaps some more grist for the mill:

These images are all dateable, as they are from known sources at known times. First two depict Nissan's first ever S30-series Z race car - specifically a Fairlady Z432-R - just before its first ( and last - as it was T-boned by another car... ) race in January 1970, and the third is a scan from part of the JAF homologation papers for the PS30 Fairlady Z432 - which was dated March 1970, and unusually shows the clear acrylic part attached to the car without the metal trim ring.

I think the screw positions can be seen relatively clearly.

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

A few more images of that '69 Tokyo Show 432: