Dull paint

[yoshi_w]

Hi, I recently bought a 240z and the paint on it is really dull. it hardly shimmers at all. It could either be old paint or a bad paint job. Is there any way to refresh the paint, at least until I have cash to repaint it? thanks! If it matters, it is a darkish maroon color.

[ajmcforester]

Yes you can bring paint back, more or less its removing the oxidized paint. Pictures can help. Is the paint very thin? What type of paint original, lacquer, enamel . . . This can make a big difference and what results would you be satisfied with? By the way color matters pigments change paint hardness

Edited November 25, 2010 by ajmcforester

[yoshi_w]

How do you tell how thin the paint is? Also I'm almost positive the paints not original. I don't kno what kind of paint however, is there a way of telling? It doesn't look like its peeling or have orange peal or anything, its just really dull and doesn't reflect light much at all. I'd be happy with jus some reflection in the paint, not looking for showroom or anything like that, just something more presentable looking if that makes sense? Thanks!

[ajmcforester]

How do you tell how thin the paint is?

This is a matter of ocular observation, somewhat subjective, think of a new car, and how thick the paint is now thin paint chips differently it is almost as thin as paper you will also see spots where you can start to see through the color at certain angles, their is not much you can do if it is very thin, unless you have lacquer paintt

Also I'm almost positive the paints not original. I don't know what kind of paint however, is there a way of telling?

Yes you can tell the different paints and why I have considered painting my car with lacquer. The problem is getting 920 Safarie Gold in Lacquer is nearly imposable, and would not hold up as well. Knowing paint type can help you determine some options. Now their are 3 main types and some in between types.

Lacquer- One of the older paints has a very translucent look usually no cear coat, it get very cloudy when oxidized. low bet you would have a pure lacquer, however the original paint would have been a acrylic lacquer.

Acrylic- This paint it plastic like and looks like smooth plastic. It is very durable and rarely used by its self ushally mixed in lacquer paints or enamels. Hi acrylic paints usually are a base acrylic/clear enamel/acrylic paint job.

Enamels- think finger polish easy to apply smooths out nicely Toyota FJ Cruisers are paint with a straight enamel. It is durable, easy to repair and low VOC

It doesn't look like its peeling or have orange peal or anything, its just really dull and doesn't reflect light much at all. I'd be happy with jus some reflection in the paint, not looking for showroom or anything like that, just something more presentable looking if that makes sense? Thanks!

Yes your last question makes since look at my blue car pictures when I purchased that car it was so badly oxidized I thought it was painted sky blue, and new primer had more shine. The owner I bought the car from told me the car was painted in 84, with about 200 hours of buffing I got that. I had some spots that could use some touch-up with paint, but she was able to win best of show at many large car events without me repaint the car.

I can help you get on the right path but I need to see how she shine with pictures, know what paint type we are working with, by the way does she have a clear coat, so I can help you. If it was repainted was the car taken down to bare metal?

[TomoHawk]

I heard that paint/body shops have a little gizmo that can measure the thickness of the paint. It probably includes the substrate under the top/color layer.

You might just take the car to a friendly body shop or two and get some opinions?

Edited November 26, 2010 by TomoHawk

[yoshi_w]

The previous owner repainted so I honestly dont know if it went to bare metal. some paint did chip off and it looked like it was metal and not another layer of paint, but still hard to tell. as for thickness, it does look a little thin, but I cant tell if there is or is not clearcoat. Ill take a closer look tomorrow or the day after and put up some pics. Thanks for the help so far!

[cygnusx1]

Here is the single stage urethane as I received it. Straight from the time capsule, sitting against garage door windows for 23 years! According to paperwork it was stripped to bare metal in 1987 and repainted. The PO then let the car sit for all those years. It became badly oxidized, and in a few spots the paint had lifted. The lifted spots will get repaired properly some time in the future. They are not rust related.

Wash/Clay/Wax-Cleaner/Buffing compound by hand and with a buffer/and finally a hand glaze. Lots of elbow grease. I can get it much better but my arm hurts!

[jmortensen]

I was going to say polishing compound and wax, but Dave's method works better if you have the time/patience/energy. Polishing compound is a little less coarse so you don't need as many steps afterward and you can do it by hand, but it won't do as good a job as his suggestion. Still, I've had a bunch of old 70's cars and polishing and then waxing gets most of them up to snuff if you're not super picky.

[ajmcforester]

oops I forgot urethane paints, my least favorite paint type, it good paint to me it never let up to its expectations.

Buffing works start with the mildest buffing compound then work you way up to the coarser ones and back down. Try to get away with using the least abrasive compound, remember buffing removes paint.

Now with some paints you can lay new paint on. With lacquer paints scuffing and a little lacquer paint thinner you can prep the paint to accept now coats of paint, I've seen people put clear coats on original 50's paint jobs this way.

[Carl Beck]

Hi yoshi_w

Here is another way to look at the subject of "paint".

Lacquer - - applied in liquid form via the use of solvents. As the solvents evaporate they leave a uniform layer of whatever solids were used. When dry, lacquers have to be buffed to attain a shinny surface.

Enamel - - applied in liquid form via the use of solvents. As the solvents evaporate they leave a "skin coat" of solids, on top of the underlying bonding agent. Enamels dry to a high gloss.

Both Lacquers and Enamels are thousands of years old, both have been made with hundreds of different formulas. There seems to be an endless combination of solvents and solids used over time.

Lacquers will shine, until all paint is worn away, they will shine-up, right down to the primer used under them. Enamels will shine until the skin coat of solids at the top are worn away, the underlying bonding/sealing agents can also be buffed to a shine, but it will be only temporary and shin will fade back quickly. {because 90% of the solids that produced the shine in the skin coat of the enamel, are not present in the lower layers of the paint}.

Materials:

Nitrocellulose - made from organic cells/fibers and nitrate. Used as a solid in both lacquers and enamels for hundreds of years.

Acrylic - is a clear polymer emulsion. {plastic}. Cast clear it is used to make Plexiglass/Lucite etc. Added to a Lacquer or Enamel paint - the acrylic bonds to the color pigments and other solids. It makes the paint more durable.

Polyurethane - is a polymer, made by chemically combining monomers {plastic}. Depending on the exact mix and process - it can be a liquid, foam or solid. For the most part Polyurethanes are used to produce enamels. {there are exceptions}.

Cleaning/Polishing:

You can use any number of different products on the market today. One of the better one's I've used lately is Meguiars "Ultimate Compound" for abused and neglected finishes. It is really more a polish than a tradition "compound" so it won't take too much of the skin coat off any of the enamels.

http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/detail/MEG+G17216

I highly recommend getting yourself a decent orbital or dual action buffer as well. It can easily turn a 12 hour job into a far better result in 4 hours. "decent" meaning one with enough power and low vibration levels - to do the job efficiently. Meguiars, Porter Cable, Griot's Garage all offer pretty good machines for around $129.00 to $149.00 I have a rather large pickup truck and car hauling enclosed trailer...both of which are usually neglected somewhat - so I upgraded to the FLEX dual action .. more money but well worth it. Invest in a good tool and you'll be using it for decades to come.

Wash it, clay bar it, polish it, wax it.

Wash it first... {I use Dawn liquid if I want to remove all wax/polish and grease from the surface}.

Then clay bar it - that will remove surface contaminates, and prevent them from scratching the paint as you then polish it. Follow that up with any good automotive wax. {what you use depends somewhat on how often you want to do it}.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Carl Beck

[yoshi_w]

I just took a pic, it was a little dark out, but the paint in the pic is essentially what it looks like over the entire car.

[ajmcforester]

Use a basic paint prep cleaner in a 3 step wax job and follow up with a polish using a buffer for all the application and a microfiber rags in the hard to get areas, don't worry about wax till you get the paint clean. You will get about 70% with that. Next the areas that didn't shine use a more abrasive polish, and go one step at a time till it starts to change then work down all the steps till you use a cleaning polish. once the car looks consistent then use a cleanning polish then wax. You have a dark color, using a aeperate polish and a wax with no polish will give you stunning results.

If you wanted to and the paint is holding will to the car, depending on paint type you might be able to put a clear over the old paint. I'd recommend considering it if the paint is as consistent as what is on the fender.