Losing Faith

[SledgehammerX]

Ok, a few months back i posted on here and since then my problems have changed. The car used to start and run and then die after about 20 minutes. Now it has NO SPARK and will not fire. It will turn over constantly but never fire.

"NEW PARTS"

Battery

MSD Blaster 2 Coil

NGK Performance Wires

NGK Platinum Plugs

Distributor

Distributor Cap

Rotor Button

Pick Up Coil

Ignition Control Module

Why will she not fire? Just turn over. Its getting fuel, the pump hits everytime ( i took the S terminal off of the starter to hear it) I also got sprayed in the face with gas when i loosened up a fuel line to see if there was fuel in the lines and there were. She has no spark, and I am out of ideas. For someone that would like to exchange emails, get to me at drblackjack69@hotmail.com

[SledgehammerX]

Really? 20 views and no responses?

[Zed Head]

The coil needs 12 volts at each terminal when the key is on. When the pick up coil triggers the ignition module,the module breaks the circuit, releasing the spark. So you must be missing one of those key items - 12 volts through the coil, distributor pick up coil sending trigger voltage to module, or module breaking the circuit.

Edit - the coil needs 12 volts at Start also, There typically is a bypass circuit that avoids accessories when Starting. Hook up your test light or volt-meter to the coil terminals and turn the key to On and Start. If you get 12 volts you can move on to the circuit-breaking step.

You list the cars below in your profile. Is it one of those? There are a variety of triggering mechanisms for a variety of ignition modules out there. Some can be tested.

1990 Nissan 300zx

1984 Olds Cutlass Supreme 307 V8 Vin Y

Looking for another 300ZX

Looking for Datsun Z

Looking for 350Z Wrecked

Edited December 14, 2010 by Zed Head

[SledgehammerX]

Oh my mistake, i havent updated this profile. Its on a 77 280z Fuel injected. SO when the key goes to on and start i should have 12 volts? if i do, then what? if i dont?

[Gary in NJ]

8:21PM - Request for help

9:09PM - Insulting Members for not running to your aid

Really?

[Zed Head]

Maybe he was doing the SNL "Reaaalllyy" thing... Could have waited at least an hour though.

If you have 12 at both sides of the coil, you need to make sure that you have 12 to the module and that you have a good connection from the coil negative to the module (runs all the way back through the harness to the passenger side of the cabin), and that the module ground is good, and that the pickup coil works correctly. The module just sits there waiting for the pickup coil to send a voltage pulse (simplified) then it breaks the circuit. In the meantime, it is supplying the ground that lets current flow through the coil.

You might have to take a look at the wiring diagram to get the colors for the wires at the module, so you can test power, ground, coil negative and distributor. Those wires run out to the distributor and coil.

When you say new module, you mean new 77 module, not new MSD module, right?

[cozye]

are you basing the "no spark" diagnosis on the fact that you can hear the fuel pump, or have you 100% verified that you aren't getting any spark by hooking up a plug and grounding to observe fire when turning key ?

Reason I ask is that the ECU may not be getting power, in which case you would have spark and fuel pressure but it wouldn't start.

[SledgehammerX]

Gary - sorry I am stressed and scrambling to fix this.

Zed Head - it is a 77 control module, not the msd thing.

Cozye - I pulled a plug and grounded it and it never hit even once.

I'll try the multimeter test in the morning. I am really wanting this car to run

[jmortensen]

Running for 20 minutes then dying is a classic module going bad symptom. Not running at all is a module gone bad symptom. If you have another one, I'd try that. I don't know how available those modules are, but I have a couple friends running those older 280Z style distributors with Chrysler modules that you can get at any auto parts store for $20. I'm sure you could run an HEI or a number of other modules as well if you need something fast.

One of those guys also had the sensor inside the distributor move into the trigger wheel, rendering the thing inoperative. This was at an autox, and as I recall he finished a run and pulled into the grid and the thing just died right there. No warning, no nothing. I don't recall the spec, but there should be a gap between the sensor and trigger wheel. Could probably download the FSM from www.carfiche.com and find it.

[FastWoman]

Sledgehammer, I assume when you say you grounded a plug that you placed a plug wire NEAR ground to look for a spark jumping from the wire to ground. Yes? A better test is to pull the center wire off of the distributor (the one coming from the ignition coil) and placing it maybe 1/8" from a ground point. The bolts on the stock tower are good for this.

Another great way to test for spark is to spray some starter fluid in the intake and try cranking the engine. If it will fire (and then die), it has spark.

Assuming you really don't have spark, I completely agree with Jon. I did a retrofit with a GM HEI module and found it quite easy. It worked well, and the total cost was only $14. Instructions are here:

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/gmhei.html

BTW, it can be a bit disconcerting when dozens of people read a post and nobody comments, but you have to understand those are the lurkers. You probably need to wait at least 24-48 hr before you're certain nobody has anything to say.

Keep faith! Your Z will run like a champ when everything is straight.

Good luck!

Edited December 14, 2010 by FastWoman

[cozye]

Another alternative ignition idea is to use a crane XR700, or XR3000. I did this on mine. It's a simple bolt in setup and replaces the magnetic pick up coil with an optical trigger setup. Also allows you to properly phase the trigger (my magnetic setup was off quite a bit). I think I spent about $140 and I no longer need an ignition module. All that is required is a 12v lead off the ignition circuit and the system is self contained after that. I wouldn't go down this path though until you've verified no spark and that your current ignition module is malfunctioning.

Are you sure your pick up coil is working ? Ignition wont fire if it's not getting a trigger. Could be a short or a dirty barrel connector from the distributor.

Edited December 14, 2010 by cozye

[SledgehammerX]

I just hit my coil with the multimeter, with the key in the on position since I can't turn it over since I am alone. I put both ends of the multimeter on each the positive and the negative on the coil and got a 0.02 a 0.04 reading.. Now what? A new coil again?