240 # 22

[Evil Turkey]

Wow.... is someone really willing to pay OVER 10k for a Z in this shape? I understand the rarity of the first series Z's but this seems to be pushing it. A lot of little details mentioned above really makes me wonder...

I declare shenanigans! (Or the world has become even crazier than it was)

[Patcon]

If I didn'thave 3 240's as projects already I would consider a low number car. I considered buying the car, but calmer heads prevailed (my wifes) It is also probably the lowest number car i will ever see for sale that I would consider. Most of the very early z's have already been saved and would cost way more than I would be willing to invest. I figured the car would go for an easy 6-7k but I was surprised the reserve was not met at 10k. I already have two series 1 cars so I would only consider it because of the very low number. I also agree there should have been 20 pictures if you are serious about selling the car. All the usual rust concern areas. Interior under the hood etc. I figured 10k was kind of high, but wanted some feedback for what others that had a good idea what these cars are worh thought. I know what a nice z should bring. I just didn't know how much the very early vin brought the price up

Charles

[26th-Z]

I'm very surprised. I would sell HLS30-00027 for that kind of money. Seriously.

But the economics of this sort of project have been well hashed over. The cost seriously depends on your expectations of the finished product. The cost also depends on who does the labor and for what rate. Some guys prefer to pay someone. Some prefer to do it themselves. Some buy replacement parts and some restore the parts they have. For me, I have always worked on cars so I'm doing most of my own work. I contract out many different things, but the process one would take for this car is similar to what I am doing to Her Majesty the 26th. HLS30-00026 (Her Majesty) has around $4,500 in metal work alone including the electrolite dip. Paint was another $5,000. The engine and trans represent another $5,000. I have quite a bit invested in re-plating bolts and fasteners. I can only imagine what the chrome plating cost is going to be. My original optomistic estimate was $30,000 but now I am optomistically thinking $40,000 or more. It wouldn't suprise me at all to see someone spend $70,000 to $100,000 on a restoration like this. And we will see cars of this value soon. HLS30-00017 is lurking in a restoration shop and I'm positive that HLS30-00019 will be finished soon. I think HLS30-00052 is close to being finished.

No...I'm very surprised to see the results of this auction. Surprised at the sales rhetoric from the seller and surprised at the bidding results.

[jellobob777]

I second the Shenaigans declaration on this one !! I will say that i do hope it was legit and the values on the Z cars are coming up so i can justify putting the time $$$ and effort into restoring my cars !

[Mike B]

There were a couple of people interested in the car that contacted me, so went to look at it last weekend. I have some pictures I took for them, but I'm not sure if I should post them in this thread. I don't know if the people ended up bidding or not. The seller mentioned he had some people that were very interested and I'll just leave it at that.

When I saw the car I knew it was much more of a project than I would personally want to take on. The front end had previous damage (the hood and radiator support weren't correct for an early car). There was quite a bit of rust damage including the battery area and floors, as noted. I think the drivers quarter was replaced at some point. It didn't have the VIN plate on the drivers door side post and didn't even have the holes were it would have been mounted. It was missing most of the early unique parts. It has a horizontal defroster on the hatch glass, instead of the early glass with no defroster. The dash was from a 72 or 73 and most everything in the interior needs to be replaced.

I was also very surprised by both the bidding and the reserve. I thought the bidding probably won't go above $5k and I was guessing the seller had the reserve around $10k. It would be very expensive to restore this car with the required body work, missing and damaged parts, and seized engine. The only people interested would be someone that REALLY wanted a low VIN car.

Edit - I also wanted to mention that the seller said he had rolled the car out of the garage and taken additional pictures that he was sending bidders that asked for them. I'm not sure what the pictures were of, or how many there were. Hopefully the people that bid it up so high had some more pictures to go by. I personally wouldn't bid any where near that level without more pictures and even then you can get burned. Much better to look at the car in person.

-Mike

Edited January 14, 2011 by Mike B

[cozye]

What makes the low VIN cars so much more desirable? I mean, I know that collectors prefer the lower vin numbers and thats the norm, it just seems illogical though seeing that the 22nd vin should be no different a car than the 500th car, etc..

Just curious for the logical explanation really..

[Montezuma]

I think it is because they the first to arrive or a 69 that causes people to pay more for the low double digit VINs. My Vin on my 73 is one of the highest in the registry and I think that is cool. I get it....good luck to the high bidder.

[geezer]

What makes the low VIN cars so much more desirable? I mean, I know that collectors prefer the lower vin numbers and thats the norm, it just seems illogical though seeing that the 22nd vin should be no different a car than the 500th car, etc..

Just curious for the logical explanation really..

It really is just a mindset. There will always be those that covet the low VIN. It can be easy to get caught up in that mindset. As well, it is fairly affordable to purchase a low VIN example that needs restoration. That is only the beginning though. It takes a special kind of dedicated Z nut to follow through and spend the countless thousands upon thousands needed for a correct restoration. As well, several years or a decade or more in some cases can pass by before being finished. I really think that there are different degrees of "finished" when an early Z is being restored simply because of the difficulty of finding the early pieces needed. My hat is off to who ever takes on the challenge.

In reality, the earliest cars were the ones that had the most problems, experiencing the typical deficiencies of any new model being introduced. As time progresses, the cars naturally were improved. This is what sets the early cars apart. They are not better, just unique and more desirable if you have that mindset. Lots of us would never take on the challenge but take a great deal of interest in the subject and consider the early cars an important aspect of the hobby.

[26th-Z]

Supposedly, arguably, the first 100 of any car like the Datsun Sport Z is valuable from a collector's point of view. The Z432 variant is highly coveted. The Mazda RX-7 is a good comparable example. Early examples are very pricey and not easy to come by. Although the early cars had their quirks, as Ron points out, they were the lightest and fastest of all the HLS30 models.

[kats]

Hi,

I envy you Chris,and Mike.I still keep my dream becoming an owner of a 1969 240Z.

I just steped back and looked this auction(Thank you Mike). I would be interested in a low vin car which remains its all the parts which are considerd "1969 special" .I can not say "I do not care if the car gets rust badly" but, if I have big money and good craftmans, metal work can be done for the level which I am satisfied.

The parts are most important for me.The hardest one is "white glasses". I have no idea I can find them in Japan if the car is missing or altered. Other parts are of course hard to find but we can collect or make reproductions.

I will not be interested in a low vin car which has fully restored without "1969 special parts".

kats

Edited January 14, 2011 by kats

[HS30-H]

Supposedly, arguably, the first 100 of any car like the Datsun Sport Z is valuable from a collector's point of view.

So, that would be a total of around 40-something HLS30s...?

Hope someone will take on "#22". There has to be space for a little pragmatism when it comes to what is - and isn't - possible. HLS30-00022 doesn't have to be 100% concours perfect to be appreciated.

[Unkle]

Kats , what are ''white glasses '' ?

I lost it in translation....