Z Beginning: Datsun 240Z Racing Article

[Mike B]

I found this online article titled "Z Beginning: Datsun 240Z Racing" http://www.theautochannel.com/publications/magazines/sci/aug-sept-97/datsun.frame. It was published in the Aug/Sept 1997 issue of Sports Car International magazine and documents the roundtable discussion that took place in 1996 the morning after Nissan USA's celebration of the Z (which was being discontinued in the US). Participants included Mr. K, Peter Brock, Bob Sharp, Trevor Harris, John Knepp and John Morton from the BRE race team, Bob Thomas who handled Datsun public relations at the time, and Les Cannaday (CDM).

I thought it gave some interesting insight into the early days of racing Datsuns in the US, as told by some of the key players, even though I have heard a lot of it before and some may question the context of some of the comments. I especially found the remarks about the competition with Porsche interesting, given some of the recent comments in the "poor man's Porsche" thread.

-Mike

[Oiluj]

VERY interesting article. Fits with my recollection of reading about the early Z's racing heritage. (I was in high school and there was no way a could afford a car like the Z, so the closest I could get was reading about them).

[Oiluj]

I'm very surprised others have not commented on this article. Discusses much of what was debated in the earlier thread, including some difficulties they had with the early S30's.

[spitz17]

That was very good morning read! Shortly after, they must have released that totally ugly prototype of the 350Z. Thank god they didn't release that into production: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Conceptz.jpg

[HS30-H]

I'm very surprised others have not commented on this article.

The talk about the racing is pretty jumbled up and out of sequence ( half the time it's not immediately clear if they are talking about SPs/SRs, S30s or S130s at any one time ), but one quote shone out for me, and it wasn't about racing:

"Most people, even today, believe that the German designer, Goertz, designed the Z car, but I actually created the car.

I got together with two Nissan designers and we worked out most of the details of the Z."

I've seen him say this several times, and it makes my heart sink every time.

Alan T.

[spitz17]

I agree with Alan, that statement feels like a low jab. The video of Mr. Matsuo that was released a few months met quite a bit of controversy on this forum when he stated that HE designed the Z. Now it looks like Mr. K is taking credit, and giving some to "two Nissan designers." Now I am not an expert, but after seeing a video of an older American gentleman, the Mr. Matsuo video, and this Mr. K article, all claiming that they designed/created the Z's, I am quite confused. Per Mike B's other article thread it stated:

"The designers of record at Nissan are Yoshihiko Matsuo, chief designer; Akio Yoshoda, exterior designer; Sue Chiba, interior design; Eiichi Oiwa and Kiichi Nishikawa, design assistants. Hidemi Kamahara and Tsuneo Benitani engineered the car and Teiichi Hara oversaw the whole process. But because Katayama was in on the entire project from the concept stage, talking about future cars with the designers before they knew about the 240Z project, he is credited as much as anyone else.

That sounds like quite a bit more than "two Nissan designers." I'm so confused, . Is everyone just trying to take credit for themselves?

Edited February 1, 2011 by spitz17

[HS30-H]

Now it looks like Mr. K is taking credit, and giving some to "two Nissan designers."

Glenn,

Bear in mind the 'interview' / round table discussion took place in 1996. At that time, Matsuo san was not enjoying the attention of the English-speaking media that he is now.

The truth is that -within a company as large as Nissan already was in the late 1960s - creating a complex industrial product like an automobile was never going to be something that could be credited to one single person. Matsuo san was nominated as the 'Chief Designer' - a designer amongst designers, tasked with coordinating the work of others and managing much of the project. It doesn't mean that every single line and curve on the car came from his pen or spatula any more than it means that every single nut and bolt was to his - or anyone else's - specifications. He was a team leader. Unfortunately, his years in the uncredited wilderness along with the vacuum left by the modesty of others ( and Nissan's head-in-sand attitude ) have seen him come back to take perhaps a little more credit than is wise, necessary or even deserved. Cause and effect.

Katayama might well believe that he "created" the car, but this is far too simplistic and banal a statement for it to stand up to any scrutiny. For him to come up with the 'concept' of a sports car ( nevermind that Nissan already had one, and would have more coming ) is something akin to a Butcher coming up with the 'concept' of putting some beef in his shop window. It's a no-brainer. Unfortunately, people seem to just nod their heads and congratulate him for his 'vision' rather than pointing out that it was all somewhat obvious. But that's the 'Mr K. Effect' for you.....

There's an interesting two page article in the new issue of 'Kyu Sha Jin', published just last week in Japan. It's an interview with Kumeo Tamura, who took over much of the final ( clay ) body styling on the S30 project after Akio Yoshida's transfer to a different department. Once you start taking into account the efforts of people such as Tamura san, and add them to the work of Yoshida san and his colleagues - as well as all the ( hundreds of! ) engineers and subcontractors involved - any claims from one person that they "created" the Z start to look a little bit daft.

Alan T.

[Mike B]

Per Mike B's other article thread it stated:

"The designers of record at Nissan are Yoshihiko Matsuo, chief designer; Akio Yoshoda, exterior designer; Sue Chiba, interior design; Eiichi Oiwa and Kiichi Nishikawa, design assistants. Hidemi Kamahara and Tsuneo Benitani engineered the car and Teiichi Hara oversaw the whole process. But because Katayama was in on the entire project from the concept stage, talking about future cars with the designers before they knew about the 240Z project, he is credited as much as anyone else.

That sounds like quite a bit more than "two Nissan designers." I'm so confused, . Is everyone just trying to take credit for themselves?

Don't forget this other line from the same article "... as the saying goes, success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

-Mike

Edited February 2, 2011 by Mike B

[spitz17]

Thank you for clarifying Alan. I feel a bit more enlightened after reading how you put Matsuo's perspective into being. I can see now that during the round-table period he may have been put into the shadows of many different people, but now is more often approached by the english-speaking media. I would be very interested in reading this two-page article from the issue of "Kyu Sha Jin."

Mike B,

I did see that excellent quote shortly after I posted my comment.

[26th-Z]

I would like to add something to this drifting conversation. Just got a copy of "Automotive News" dated August 30, 2010 with coverage of the Nashville convention. The article, by Lindsay Chappell, was mostly an interview with Yoshihiko Matsuo and Randy Rodriguez, designers of the 240Z and 370Z respectively.

It would have been impossible for Matsuo to imagine such a conversation 40 years ago. In the mid-1960s when the Z was in development, Nissan barely existed in North America, having only recently begun selling here under the Datsun name.

The company was loosely organized in the United States, and US sales were marginal to a company historically focused on Japanese consumers. Communications involving American dealers, their new factory officials and the Japanese corporation were spotty.

Datsun's senior U.S. sales executive at the time, Yutaka Katayama, traveled back to Japan regularly in hopes of getting the parent company to be more enthusiastic about American sales. On one visit in the 1960s, he saw the Z project.

"Katayama came into the studio and saw what I was working on," Matsuo recalls. "He was really excited. He said; 'I have to have this car in America. I can sell this car."

Katayama urged Nissan to approve a larger engine for the U.S. version of Matsuo's sports car. When management refused, Katayama used his connections with Japan's powerful Ministry of International Trade and Industry to pressure Nissan. Katayama got his way, but he made few friends at the company. Nissan seemed to be ambivalent about Matsuo's car. The company had allocated factory production for it of just 300 cars a month.

"He was very enthusiastic for the Z," Matsuo says. "He told the company he could sell 3,000 a month in the U.S. We were all very excited about his numbers. "But after he left, we said; ' He doesn't know what he is talking about. He'll never sell that many.'" Katayama's robust U.S. forcast would have required Nissan to invest in plant capacity on a completely different scale - hardly a likely move for a company that doubted the strength of the U.S. market for Japanese cars. "We guaranteed him 3,000 cars a month," Matsuo admits. "But behind his back, we only planned for 1,500 a month."

Edited February 2, 2011 by 26th-Z
speeling and puntashun

[26th-Z]

More from the article...

Just 31 at the time, Yoshihiko Matsuo had mouthed off to senior executives at Nissan Motor Co., expressing his disdain for the company's P410 Bluebird. "They told me, 'If you can do better, why don't you prove it?' So I went into the studio and came up with the 240Z. I didn't even have approval to do the project. I just went ahead and did it."

"In those days," Matsuo continues, "I had to do it all - the design, the engineering, the packaging. You didn't just design. You had to show that the car sould be manufactured, and it had to be all the correct dimensions for customers."

Now I'm not posting this as any gospel but rather evidence of "it depends on who you are talking to".

Edited February 2, 2011 by 26th-Z