FUEL FILTER PICTURES!!! bad bad bad

[argniest]

Well here is a picture of my fuel filter. I took it off the car in the summer of 2010, and just forgot about cutting it open. We have suspected there is a rust problem in the tank. Based on other facts we have been collecting about the car, we think it sat for a while. And probably with a half filled gas tank. And therefore the top of the gas tank is probably all rusty and corroded etc

I believe I only drove 200/300 or so miles on the one in the picture. But I cannot be sure because too many things have happened since the last year or so.

However, I have another fuel filter on the car now, which I am gonig to pull off to check it. I drove about 1000 miles this summer with the current fuel filter on it. So that one I will know for sure, it was around 1000 miles on it. And I always filled up the tank, figuring it would be collecting all kinds of nasty stuff in it, if the tank really is messed up.

I will cut it open too, after it dries out for a week or so. And see what comes out. If its the same as this, then that is probably not a good thing.

I cannot imagine that a fuel filter should have nearly this much material in it. If so, I would be surprised. But what do I know, Im a noob. Am counting on your help to tell me if this is shocking or normal.

Thanks! PS Sorry i posted this on another thread about fuel tanks, and figured this was better to post it here instead.

Edited January 31, 2011 by argniest

[spitz17]

This is "normal" in the sense that tons of Z's have this problem. I would definitely consider dropping the tank and sending it to a radiator shop for some acid treatment/resealing. $300-400 goes a long way, or at least it is better than replacing a motor. Not only does this crap get into your engine, but it also gives the gas a weird looking color that could be harmful to your engine. Luckily it looks like the fuel filter you had on the car was the rear filter, meaning you have a 72 and above (?). Did you get a chance to look at the fuel filter in the front? Also you can pull the bolt on both float chambers of your carburetors (assuming you have SUs) and check the screen filter that is circulates the tip of the bolt. Check those screen filters to make sure they are clean.

I had a bad rust in the gas of my Fairlady, and it ended up freezing a valve in place in my head.

[Dobber]

WoW! Are you sure some kid didn't dump a pail full of beach sand into the tank. I'm with spitz17, pull the tank befor causing untold damage to the engine.

[cygnusx1]

Yes, pull and service the tank, and flush all the lines with a cleaner. Don't take chances.

[argniest]

Well, now I am really kicking myself for not opening that thing up before. But hey I am not a car wisperer. I am just doing my best to get things taken care of in the order that seems to make sense. It does seem like a lot of material in there!!!!! And the bad thing is that once I hacked the top off, I kind of tapped the filter on the paper again, and like 25% more stuff came out. And it was a lot finer material.

I think there is another cavity inside of it, that leads to the nipple on the top of it? I havent poked that part open yet. But since I dont know exactly how this kind of a fuel filter works, I am not sure what else there is to see.

What I am saying is that, OK, the filter material trapped a LOT of particles, but then I was thinking somehow that there is another mechanism in this filter where the fuel flows too like via pressure, it gets squeezed into the output side?

PS

I am not sure what you meant about a rear filter? As far as I know this is the only fuel filter, besides the screen in the tank, and supposedly another screen somewhere in the fuel line leading up into the fuel filter (is there one of those screens by the way in the fuel line somewhere's behind the fuel filter? or is that a myth. The reason I am asking is because if I know where its at, I can pull it out maybe, and clean it too)

Of course I already have a relative who works on restoring cars, and I told him what I found today. And they know how to steam clean it, seal it, etc...so once I can get the car up there I will have this done. He has a big huge tow truck, and is willing to come and pick it up. So I dont even have to drive it on the winter roads.

Edited February 1, 2011 by argniest

[argniest]

WoW! Are you sure some kid didn't dump a pail full of beach sand into the tank. I'm with spitz17, pull the tank befor causing untold damage to the engine.

Well its not sand. It feels very powdery, and not a hard material as far as I can tell and some of it is very fine small particles like finer than flour in a kitchen.

Its probably already too late for that. But then again, who knows. I mean I had several mechanics look at it, listen to it, run tests, etc and even drive it in (if you see my other super long post, you will see a long list of mechanical type stuff that has been done to it, none of which was related to the engine except the exhaust manifold gasket).

And they didnt go OH MY GOD DONT EVER DRIVE THIS CAR UNTIL YOU FIX X,Y, or Z!!!! However, that doesnt mean the engine isnt screwed up because of this happening with the crap in the fuel tank....for lord knows how long it has been going on, and for how many miles. Poor baby. Im crying for it now.

Edited February 1, 2011 by argniest

[ajmcforester]

I looked at your profile so I know what car model we are dealing with a 78 280Z. Please check the front filter for rust if your filter is red, that is not good. Let me give you some good news fuel injectors will allow very little rust into the engine, you can now guess the bad news. If the filter is red you will more than likely need to do a serious cleaning of the ejectors. Drop the tank and flush the steel fuel lines with some rust cleaner, and don't forget the return lines. Some radiator shops can boil the tank last time I did this it cost me $40 and no tank for 4 days, about 7 years a go. Well worth it. MY first Z came with a rusty take.

After you get the rust out of the tank you have several options to keep it from happening again. The best advise only store or let the car sit with a full tank of gas, you need oxygen to oxidize. You can seal the tank but I've seen and heard of the sealers pealing flaking, even disintegrating and plugging things up. The best treatment I like is the use of 1qrt of non-detergent oil (or marvels mistory oil, actualy any oil with no cleaners will do, I even think the lucas fuel injector cleaner works, its oily) every oil change in a half full gas tank, take a drive (only need 3-4 miles) and make some hard turns to slosh it around, then fill the tank, it works. The car I have now the last two owners have done that its whole life 40 years and no rust in the tank. The only downfall is you get a little blue smoke for one tank of gas.

[FastWoman]

Yeah, argneist, that's a LOT of rust! You've just now replaced your injectors and don't have any significant run-time on them, so I doubt you've done them any harm (yet). IMO, there's no reason to pull your injectors and fuel rail. Just drop the tank, clean it out, seal it, change your filter, and you should be good.

Good thing you checked!

[argniest]

I didnt replace injectors yet, because this fuel tank issue has always been in the back of my mind. I got such a long list of things I want to do, and learn about the car. And I was reviewing all my notes, and was like DOIH!!! Get back to the possible fuel tank issue. And sure enough look at the fuel filter OMG!!!!! its horrible. And once I pull the current one off there, and cut it open after its good and dry, I imagine I will find the same thing.

At least my relative has done this tank cleaning before, since he restores cars for a living. I told him about it today, and he was like get that thing up here. I said yeah, come and get it on the tow truck (he has a big flat bed truck that my Z was on one time before when it died because of a wet relay that went bad, because we had a hurricane storm almost - but thats a whole other story) because he knows I wont drive in winter. Its too precious to me.

EDIT: I cannot imagine how much this crud must be effecting the car. And lord knows for how long its been happening before I ever got the car. Its making me kind of blue. I mean some of it must be making it past the fuel filter right? Especially mucking up the fuel injectors in countless waysssssssssss. Oh well, once he cleans it, and I change fuel filter, I will run it for a little while, and make sure its OK. and then, finally I will get to replace the injectors....geeeze what a long drawn out process. And now I am even more convinced of how bad the injectors must be. The car should really liven up once these things are done.

I remember talking about this issue 1.5 years ago with my relative who was working on the car, but with all the other mechanical type work being done, it was not important because the car was in pieces on the floor. I probably mentioned it 6 times to him at least. I really wish now, I would have just had him do it. ughg

But hey, I am very lucky to even have these kind of problems. I realize that too. Im not complaining really Im not.

Edited February 1, 2011 by argniest

[FastWoman]

Cool! Well, there ya' go!

[Darrel]

Did it run better when you first replaced the filter?

[argniest]

Well, I cant say for sure (I wasnt keeping as good of records at first), if it ran better right after the first fuel filter change. Because I also changed the spark plugs and oil. And I know 1000% for sure it ran a lot better after those two things. But I cant say for sure if I changed the plugs/oil within 30 days of changing oil filter. And also around the time of the spark plug and oil change...the timing and air flow meter got tweaked by the local mechanic who was reviewing the engine for me (he also tweaked the timing a little bit and the AFM air bypass screw,and the idle)....and that included idling and driving it with the Innovate AFR meter on it. The car was like 5x better after those things were done in a matter of 24 hours. However, I know after all the reading and research and now testing things myself this winter, that I still have some issues to resolve.

Well anyway, that was when I found out my plugs were getting fouled up (when I finally decided to look at them). Of course, I learned from that experience, rule#1 about how important the first thing you should do when troubleshooting an engine running problem is to 'read the plugs'. But hey, this is my learning car. So now I know :-)

The thing is, was that I thought my relative who had been working on the car had changed that stuff, but since he wasnt really working on the engine, I realize now it didnt make sense for him to do it. Never assume anything about the car, if you can do it yourself and do it right, thats rule number 2.

Edited February 1, 2011 by argniest