Vintage Z pictures

[HS30-H]

Yes, it is very peculiar that so little information exists about the New York "International Preview".

I have heard all sorts of "information" about the preview in New York without any evidence or description about the event. And it has been incorrectly described as the New York Auto Show for way too long. We have all sorts of information about the test program, conducted at the same time, but no publicity documentation. Am I wrong, or is this "international preview in New York" just a bunch of gab and gossip?

Kudos to you for laying it on the line, Chris. That "International Preview" title is pretty grand, and you'd think there would be more evidence of what was on display there, how it was displayed, and who was actually there if it really was quite as grand as all that.

The Competition Press & Autoweek article is interesting as - and tell me if I'm jumping to conclusions here - it was datelined October 27th ( mag published mid November, as you pointed out ), and yet the photos seem to be in-house 'stock' photos of - again, as you have pointed out - one of the two 'Kaku U' test cars. I noted the clock blanking plate and the recess cubby hole in the radio mount, and the lack of bonnet ( hood ) emblem, in contrast to the '2177' license plated car used in the January 1970 Road & Track magazine article - which had a clock, a radio and antenna, a bonnet emblem and white-band tyres.

After all this time we are still somewhat in the dark as regards to what cars were in the USA and/or Canada before the end of 1969, apart from the two 'Kaku U' north American test cars. No firm evidence / photos of a car or cars at either a N.Y. or L.A. event before the end of 1969, and any reports of the events simply used stock press release photos of cars which could have been taken anywhere, but were quite clearly not taken at the events in question.

I was surprised to see 'HLS30-00013' being put forward as a possible candidate for the N.Y. "International Preview" car in the ctzcc.com thread ( thanks for the link, Mike B ) as it seems to me that there's little real evidence that 'HLS30-00013' had even arrived on US soil that early. Indeed, it seems likely that it didn't arrive until January 1970 at the earliest, and quite possibly even later than that.

Several big holes to be filled here, I think.

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Looks like Carl's taken his ball home again......

[Carl Beck]

Yes, I was surprised to read that HLS30-01777 was sold in March. Does March 14th mean you ordered it Carl? Or did you take delivery? Where did you buy it from?

Hi Chris:

Actually I was at the local Porsche Dealership trying to trade my 67 911S on a 70 911E. We couldn't get together on the bottom line - and I was on my way back to the Base when I passed the Datsun Dealership and saw the 240Z in the showroom.

March 14th 1970 was my 25th birthday - Paul Jaremko and I pushed the car off the showroom floor at Valley Datsun in Spokane, Washington after the dealership closed for the day - Paul hadn't driven one yet so he and I took it for a drive.

I actually bought the car that night - as Paul and I didn't get back to the dealership until pretty late.

Bill Jones is on this forum - Bill had ordered a 70 2000 roadster - but canceled that when Paul gave him a copy of the Oct. 69 showroom sales brochure. Bill then ordered a 240Z - but he was shipped out before it arrived. Bill had ordered a Silver Z - and 1777 was silver. Bill used to tell me that I got HIS Z.. Of course Bill did return and took delivery of a Silver 71.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Carl Beck

[Carl Beck]

Carl, how could there be thousands of 240Z's in the US by March 1970?

I wrote and you quoted, By March of 1970 the first couple thousand - that would be 2000.

According to the official production numbers that Kats' obtained there were a total of 1,553 export S30s produced by Jan 1970, 2,061 by Feb 1970

Ok - 1553 Jan+2061 Feb = 3614 that could easily have been in the US by March. Even if you take out the 7% for the entire year that Canada received {1201} and the 2% that went to other countries for that entire year according to Nissan {324} - you still have 2089 by March.

The few 1969 production cars that I have seen records of were sold in April or May. Chris' HLS30-00026 was sold on 4/29/70. My HLS30-00210 was sold on 5/11/70, and so was HLS30-00196. HLS30-00415 was sold on 4/1/70. Of course other cars were delivered before them, but I doubt there would have been thousands in the US by March.

If you believe that the cars were delivered to the Dealers and sold in sequential serial number order - I can understand your doubts. If you believe that the Dealers actually let go of the first cars they received - and did not in fact retain them to show and demonstrate to build customer orders..then I guess you might be right.

I believe that all the cars were well mixed having been loaded/off loaded at the Ports, then shuffled around again as they were loaded onto trucks and trains for delivery to the Dealers. I believe that most Dealers retained some of the first cars as showroom displays and demo's - and only sold them after the supply became more steady. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if cars that arrived in Jan or Feb would have not been actually sold and delivered until April or May.

Since the Chicago Auto Show started on Feb 21, 1970 I would think the car would have been build no later than January, so it must have been one of the first 1,553 export models.

Very possibility correct.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Looks like Carl's taken his ball home again......

Hi Alan:

No not really - just too limited on my time right now.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Under the Fair Use clause of the copyright laws - I reproduce in part and as a reference - the New York Times article of 23 Oct. 1969.

Anyone that would like to read the complete article can search the N.Y.Times historical archives on-line. There is a fee for service and you have to agree to their copyright agreement.

Anyone can also access the L.A. Times historical archives - to find their coverage as well. There are other on-line services that offer historical newspaper databases as well.

Sorry for the brief reply- but .. everyone can do their own research and decide for themselves..

FWIW,

Carl B.

[HS30-H]

Carl,

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I know you must be very busy, what with it being April 1st and all. Don't spread yourself too thin......

Under the Fair Use clause of the copyright laws - I reproduce in part and as a reference - the New York Times article of 23 Oct. 1969.

Not much bang for buck there, is there? Wouldn't even cover the cost of the vol-au-vents. Noted the small 'i' and small 'p' in the 'international preview' quote. "USA Preview" would have been more accurate, considering the model had already been previewed by the press ( unless Japan doesn't count for some reason.... ).

So, is that a stock Nissan press release photo? Did anybody take a photo of what was on display in the Pierre Hotel? It's still very mysterious, isn't it?

[cygnusx1]

Mike, what's so lucky about #13 ?

Chris you might not have know that #13 was the first Z car sold to the public in the US. It has changed hands a few times since then. I think it even spent some time in a junkyard. Also, not sure if this is a global belief, but the #13 is considered to be taboo, or generally unlucky, by the suspicious, here in the US. There are however, people like Rick and Kathy, who consider #13 to be very lucky. They are the current owners of #13.

Edited April 1, 2011 by cygnusx1

[Arne]

Chris you might not have know that #13 was the first Z car sold to the public in the US.

More accurate to say that HLS30-00013 was the lowest VIN NA-spec 240Z sold to the public. No way of know which car was actually SOLD first.

[Zulaytr]

The attached pic is supposed to be the first 240Z according to the Nissan archives.

[Galaxybj]

Carl, yes you got "my" Z, but at least someone that appreciated it got it. What Carl shares about Paul Jaremko rolling the Z off the show room floor to take it for a spin is an example of how Paul was to potential customers. I had the same experience when I test drove the 2000 roadster, except it had just rolled off the truck. Paul said lets go and off we went for a real ride. I picked up my May of '71 Z from Jaremko Motors on July 2, 1971. (In hindsight, I wish I had gotten the 2000 roadster also.)

[26th-Z]

Hey Carl - thanks for the references! I didn't realize how much is on-line, but :stupid: What a wonderful romp through the archive on Datsun Lane. I guess you can buy the articles individually, but I'm having a moment with it, evidently. I saw several articles I would like to have about Datsun history.

And tell me more about the "First 240Z" picture! I had not seen this one before. Or am I having another moment?