Vintage Z pictures

[Mike B]

I wrote and you quoted, By March of 1970 the first couple thousand - that would be 2000.

Well, originally we were discussing what the VIN of 240Z at the 1970 Chicago Auto Show could be and since the show started Feb 21, 1970, I think it would have to have been a car produced no later than Jan 1970 (if not Dec 1969). Then you stated that "by March of 1970 the first couple thousand Datsun 240Z's had arrived in the U.S". Now you've clarified that means at least 2,000 in the US by March 1970, which I still doubt.

Ok - 1553 Jan+2061 Feb = 3614 that could easily have been in the US by March. Even if you take out the 7% for the entire year that Canada received {1201} and the 2% that went to other countries for that entire year according to Nissan {324} - you still have 2089 by March.

No, Carl, those were production cumulative totals I listed, not how many were produced each month. I was trying to save you from having to do any math, but I guess that didn't work . At the end of Feb 1970 there were a total of 2,061 export S30's that had been produced. In addition to the Canadian cars, weren't there some RHD export cars produced by then too? Your Zhome.com site lists these production numbers for 1970: US 16,215 (91%); Canada 1,201 (7%); Australia 319 (2%). I calculated the percentages based on the total of those numbers. If we apply those percentages to the 2,061 export production total as of Feb 1970 that would be approximately: US 1,884; Canada 140; Australia 37. Based on those numbers, the delays I mentioned previously, and the actual sales dates shown below, it seems very unlikely that 2,000 cars would have been sold in the US by March 1970.

If you believe that the cars were delivered to the Dealers and sold in sequential serial number order - I can understand your doubts. If you believe that the Dealers actually let go of the first cars they received - and did not in fact retain them to show and demonstrate to build customer orders..then I guess you might be right.

No Carl, I don't believe that the cars were delivered to dealers and sold in sequential order, although with all the confusion about the "first boat load" of cars to the US and the "first car sold to the public" that I have seen posted I can understand why some people could think that.

I believe that all the cars were well mixed having been loaded/off loaded at the Ports, then shuffled around again as they were loaded onto trucks and trains for delivery to the Dealers. I believe that most Dealers retained some of the first cars as showroom displays and demo's - and only sold them after the supply became more steady. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if cars that arrived in Jan or Feb would have not been actually sold and delivered until April or May.

That is good to hear. Next time the "first car sold to the public" discussion comes up you can help dispel it.

I complied a list of 240Z production and sales dates from your public zhome.com original owners registry, public posts by owners, and sales/registration documents that I have seen. I am sure it is not as complete as the data you have in your private database, but it is the best I can do. If you want to post some numbers that would help support your claim that 2,000 or more 240Zs were sold in the US by March 1970 I would be interested in seeing it.

-Mike

Edited April 2, 2011 by Mike B
corrected quote

[kjohnson2444]

While this thread can hardly be called "vintage Z pictures" anymore, it is very some very interesting history. To add to Mike's list of production vs. sales date list, my #4642 produced in 5/70 was sold new on 8/7/1970 in Warren, Ohio. This goes to show how long it was taking these vehicles to get to Ohio.

[Mike]

I created a vintage Z photo gallery some time ago in our gallery. I think it's a little hard to find, but, here's the link: http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=512

I should probably rename it to vintage Z photos or something similar. Right now it's called "Blast from the Past" and that's a little hard to find.

Anyway, there are some pretty nice photos in there so far. Would love to see these get put in there because linking to external sites with photos eventually become broken. If they are in our database, they will remain here forever.

Mike

[Mike]

I also noticed we have a Vintage Z Racing category in our gallery. http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3403

I moved both of these to a common "Vintage Z Photos" category so they both appear under the same heading. This should help people find the vintage photos a lot easier. Have fun.

Mike

[astrohog]

Not much bang for buck there, is there? Wouldn't even cover the cost of the vol-au-vents. Noted the small 'i' and small 'p' in the 'international preview' quote. "USA Preview" would have been more accurate, considering the model had already been previewed by the press ( unless Japan doesn't count for some reason.... ).

In your constant quest to discredit Carl, did you ever stop to consider that since NY is in close proximity to our Canadian neighbors, perhaps the "international" COULD be referring to Them? After all, it didn't pronounce to be a "Worldwide Preview".

Regards,

Astrohog

[HS30-H]

In your constant quest to discredit Carl, did you ever stop to consider that since NY is in close proximity to our Canadian neighbors, perhaps the "international" COULD be referring to Them? After all, it didn't pronounce to be a "Worldwide Preview".

First of all, I'm most certainly not on a "constant quest" to discredit Carl. Don't be silly. It's only a part time quest......

And secondly, Carl does a pretty good job of it himself.

Thirdly, I find it quite ironic that you are talking about Carl and the forgetting of Canada in the same sentence. Carl quite often needs to be reminded to tip his hat to our Canadian friends. For example, his zhome.com page which tells us about what the factory called the "Kaku U" / "North American Testing" program ( in which they travelled thousands of miles around the USA and Canada, travelling north from Seattle, through Vancouver, up as far as Dawson Creek, then dropping back down again to go through Banff and Calgary before passing back over the border and on into Great Falls ) is simply titled "Pre-production USA Road Testing". If that's not a subliminal punch in the kisser then I don't know what is.

Fourthly ( I'm determined not to lose count here ), you may indeed have a point. But frankly, this event at the Pierre Hotel seems like a bit of a damp squib when you stand back and look at it doesn't it? The press didn't even use any photos of the actual car at the event, and I'm not entirely sure that we even know what was there. For an event with a pretty high falutin' title it sounds more like a bit of a cocktail party, some finger food and a press release. I'd like nothing better than to see another debut / launch for the S30-series Z outside the Japanese activities, but somehow this one's not really seeming to live up to its billing, is it?

I think there's an interesting backstory to all this that we don't know anything much about yet, and I feel like I want to keep scratching around until we get somewhere with it.

Regards,

Alan T.

[cygnusx1]

"first car made to be sold," or "lowest VIN made to be sold," to the US general public would describe #13. Correct?

[26th-Z]

That would be a far more accurate description, Dave. The Nissan Motor Company, Ltd parts catalog for the Datsun Sports 240Z (S30), USA and Canada lists HLS30-00013 as the first or lowest VIN for which the catalog references applicable parts. First publication was November 1969. Earlier in this thread, Carl mentions purchasing HLS30-01777 in March of 1970 which, in my mind, would cast serious doubt that HLS30-00013 was "first car sold" as well as demonstrate that the 240Zs were not distributed or sold in any sort of sequential order. And I like the North American general public description. We know that there are lower VIN HLS30s out there however we also know that they were not sold to the general public.

[240260280]

April 30th1970 Jacksonville Dealer Ad:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I bought a used 1970 240z manufactured in Feb. 1970 HLS30-01360. I purchased it in Charlotte SC in 2007.

The records that arrived with the car show it to have entered the USA in Jacksonville, Florida.

It was first sold at d*** Smith Motors, Columbia, South Carolina, on July 15th 1970

[240260280]

[240260280]

Here is a new photo that surfaced of the Chicago Auto Show: