Fairlady Z??? what the?

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by HS30-H

I live INSIDE the toll-controlled area. However, I will have to pay to travel OUT of the toll-controlled area.

Sounds like you need 2 cars Alan.

One in and 1 out!!!

Nothing like a stroll between.

[Mr Camouflage]

Originally posted by HS30-H

reply in my second post, but maybe it went over his head.............. Probably my fault. Sorry about that.

Big Brother is trying to "improve" the situation by narrowing the roads and making traffic signals stay red for longer.

I was watching the simpsond the other day, and mayor Quimby left town, so all the smart people had to take over running the town.

One of the things they did was remove all the green lights from the traffic lights, leaving amber and red, because traffic travels faster through amber lights.

Quote "Stay amber, stay amber" Lenny, while driveng fast throught the lights. "I'm making great time, pity I have nowhere to go"

[Kerrigan]

My '71 Fairlady Z has an L20 inline-6 ... did they also come with the 2400cc engine? It has a factory 5-speed which uses the same driveline as the Roadster. Did the Roadster have a 5-speed?

[Victor Laury]

What's your VIN Number? S-30? HS-30?

I believe (others will be sure) that the S-30's came with the L-20A and the HS-30's came with the L-24.

Yes, your 5 speed box is the same (kinda) as the 2L Roadster (SRL311, SR311). The difference is the bell housing (starter on the other side), the main shaft (longer) and the tail housing(ditto). Good box, but parts are getting scarce.

[HS30-H]

Yep - Victor's got it.

All Japanese market Z's are Fairladies.

From October 1969 the Japanese market only had the choice of S30 Fairlady Z or Z-L ( both "S30" VIN prefixes ) or Fairlady Z 432 and 432-R ( "PS30" VIN prefixes ). Fairlady Z and Z-L had the L20A engine and the 432 and 432-R had the S20 twin cam. Both were under the 2 Litre capacity limit. The 5-speed transmissions ( FS5C71-A ) were standard on the Fairlady Z-L, 432 and 432-R and optional equipment on the base-model Fairlady Z.

From October 1971 the Japanese market got the additional choice of the Fairlady 240Z, Fairlady 240Z-L and Fairlady 240Z-G ( all "HS30" VIN prefixed ) which had the L24 engine in twin-carb form - much like many other Export market Z's. Again, most models had the 5-speed transmission ( the FS5C71-B in these later cars ) with the 5-speed as an option in the Fairlady 240Z base model.

Victor's question about your VIN prefix is key. It determines a real lot - but not everything!

Please try to stop thinking of the 5-speed in the car as a "Roadster" 5-speed. In some ways I can understand that line of thinking, but the "A" 5-speed was not JUST a Roadster box in other markets. That's just the ( understandable ) American perspective.

All other markets apart from the USA / North American market got the choice of the 5-speed transmission right from the beginning of sales.

Good to hear of another Fairlady "on the run" in the USA! Was it a souvenir brought home by a US Serviceman / woman?

Alan T.

[1GENZED]

Hey Kerrigan

"My '71 Fairlady Z has an L20 inline-6 ... did they also come

with the 2400cc engine? It has a factory 5-speed which uses

the same driveline as the Roadster. Did the Roadster have a

5-speed?"

From what I know all the 1971 zeds imported into north America where HLS30 models and factory equipped with the 2400cc engine and 4speed transmission. The 5 spd was a sports option part and could be purchased from the dealer. I have a feeling it might be an import from a different market. Because if it isn't, and everything is stock, you might have a special car.

BTW-The North American roadster came with the 5spd from 1967

A few Fairlady zeds where imported into the US by officers positioned in Japan, but would obviously be right hand drive.

Hope I helped.

Ahmed

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by HS30-H

All other markets apart from the USA / North American market got the choice of the 5-speed transmission right from the beginning of sales.

Alan T.

Alan, the Aussie market had no other choice, zeds came as a 5 speed only with the only option being the Sports boxes.

So it might be confusing to say that all other markets got the choice as there was no choice!

MOM

[HS30-H]

Good point, Zedrally.

I should have made it clear that the 'default' transmission in most other Export markets apart from the USA / North American market was indeed the 5-speed.

However, I don't think its 100% true that there was "no option" apart from the race and rally boxes. All the parts data I have for the UK and Australian markets suggests that buyers in these markets DID in fact have the possibility to specify that the car they were buying be fitted with the 4-speed transmission. The key point seems to be that most dealers were not aware of this fact or did not bother to inform their customers of the fact.

I would be surprised if even ONE buyer in these markets decided to have a four-speed instead of the standard five-speed. I'm sure that to most minds the 5-speed would have seemed a better choice at the same price.

I've always thought it interesting that the Japanese domestic market got such a good choice of specs, but that the Export markets seemed to get one spec choice only. What's even more interesting is that the USA / North American spec. was pegged with the 4-speed ( or Auto ) and its corresponding diff ratio, while all other Export markets had the 5-speed ( or Auto ) and its corresponding diff ratio - along with the other detail differences that made the USA / North American markets 'softer' than the other Export market models.

Clearly that was a marker as to what Nissan and its local importers thought the public in those markets were looking for in these cars. You'd have to wonder whether the default 4-speed was the 'right' decision for the USA / North American market - especially in the light of so many 5-speeds being retro-fitted to cars that were previously 4-speed equipped when new. I don't see or hear of many 4-speeds being put into cars that were previously 5-speed.

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

Alan, I think price and marketing in North America had a lot to do with the initial American spec. The American market had costly emission requirements too. I suspect Datsun was completely unaware of how successful they would be and sold the cars as inexpensively as they could. It's all speculation, but I suspect Americans would have gladly paid more for the 240 Z optional equipment, had they known what a great car it turned out to be.

Datsun seemed to have had a treasure chest of parts from which to construct many variations of the basic S30, as you point out. What they chose to sell in America had a lot to do with the way they saw themselves in this market. Brian Long references popular British cars as the predominant competition, however the American muscle car reigned at the time of the Z's initial introduction. First marketing campaigns emphasized economy and style whereas we look at the Z now from a performance aspect.

I don't think anyone realized the potential of the Z until a year or two later with the race results from Brock, Morten, Fitzgerald, et.al. Most Americans I talk to about my car didn't even realize the Z was first sold in 1969. Most talk of their '72s or later when the components we are discussing became available in the States.

[HS30-H]

Interesting points there, 26thZ.

I've often been told by people who were involved with the manufacturing of the Z and its components in Japan that the sudden boom in US / North American sales demand took them completely by surprise. Of course, they were hoping that the Z would sell well in that market - but it was never a 'done deal' and they had a hard time keeping up with demand once it started to get really popular.

I have seen some of the early USA marketing stuff and I can see that the promotion of the car was at first rather conservative.

In my opinion, Nissan's US operation somewhat underestimated the aspirations and expectations of many of the S30's buyers for their territory. It seems clear that many of the decisions regarding the spec of the USA market cars were greatly influenced by NMC USA and Mr Katayama in particular.

I quite agree that some of the details of the USA market cars were influenced by cost considerations, but that's not the whole story is it? Making lower rate springs, and 'softer' bump and rebound rates for the dampers costs no more or less than making the specs that the other market versions used. Additionally, its clear that even the Japanese domestic market cars were subject to cost-cutting and design concessions - but they still got the opportunity to buy a model that was equipped with a close ratio 5-speed transmission right from the release of the car in 1969.

In my opinion, NMC USA slightly underestimated the knowledge and sophistication of its potential market. If they were hoping to poach customers from the British sportscar crowd, as well as the American Muscle Car and Italian Exotics crowds, then they could have been a bit more bold and made the spec of the USA market cars a little less conservative.

That it was such a huge success anyway makes it rather difficult for me to follow through the theory. As a "what if..." it is all rather irrelevant - but nonetheless I find it interesting to wonder out loud what and why.

Alan T.

[Victor Laury]

In my opinion, NMC USA slightly underestimated the knowledge and sophistication of its potential market. If they were hoping to poach customers from the British sportscar crowd, as well as the American Muscle Car and Italian Exotics crowds, then they could have been a bit more bold and made the spec of the USA market cars a little less conservative.

Alan, In hindsight, in the present company, I'd give your opinion more warrant. But consider that very few HLS30's were sold to sports car people, consider if, that demographic was not Nissan's North American target group. Then, the "softer" fittings makes all the marketing sense. Consider if Nissan's target audience was 25 ~ 40, mainly women who wanted "Sporty" "Stylish" "It" car.

Yes, I'm stating it clearly, the market wasn't "Knowledgable or Sophisticated" at all! Please! nobody call foul. I'm NOT talking about Sports car people. When normal folk see my roadster, they say "AWW! What a cute car!". They would never understand, and think my sports car as "junk" after one pass over a poorly paved rail crossing. You're not going to sell millions of units if they drive like sports cars! Not here!

The mainstream N.A. market paid no attention at all to SCCA racing. It wasn't even televised. That, small segment of the market, sports car fans, were not prominent enough to "stiffen" the true sports nature of this car. That option was totally aftermarket and those of that ilk knew of the Nissan Competition Catalog.

Submitted into evidence, the progression of the North American S30 and the subsequent models, S130, Z31, Z32. Softer, plusher, Factory AC fitted, power windows, power-friggin-anything. America, taken as a whole, wanted a stylish Grand Tourer. Nissan quite successfully responded to the wants of the market.

Luckily for us, the fire breathing beast, hidden in silk robes is not hard to expose! From it's first year out, a tweak here and there, you've met the JDM/Euro/Aussie/ spec. A little more massage and you've exceeded it.