Total Brake System Refresh

[CaptHamster]

Hey guys, engine tuning is starting to come to an end, and I'd like to get an idea of what the next step of the project entails...that next step is the whole brake system. I'd prefer if the car was able to stop before it drives!

I must point out though, that this car has been sitting, all fluids in it, since about 2000, and I really have no idea what condition the brakes are in. I'm sure the hydraulics are totally shot, and I'm almost positive the brakes themselves are completely shot as well. The catch of the whole thing is, my friend and I are on a super tight budget. That means if we have something already on the car (i.e. the whole brake system) and it's cheaper (but still safe!) to clean up and reuse what's on there, then we'd prefer to do it that way. Now without pretty much any knowledge of brakes...how bad of shape are we going to be in with the brakes on this car? I guess I'd really appreciate some pointers on where to start, what to look for, what to test, what to reuse, what to buy new, etc. The engine has been surprisingly easy to do this whole time, but now I'm worried about what the hydraulics are going to look like. So, ANY kind of help is good help. I'm really not too familiar with brakes and as I said before, I'd prefer to know the car will stop well before we even know it drives!

Thanks in advance!

[240260280z]

The lowest cost overhaul would be to

- replace the two rear wheel cylinder seals (kit with rubber parts ~$6.95 each side)

http://www.blackdragonauto.com/icatalog/zr/full.aspx?Page=53

- replace rear shoes ~ $49.95

- replace rear spring kit ~$9.95

- replace master brake cylinder seals (kit with rubber parts ~$9.95)

- replace front pads ~19.95

http://www.blackdragonauto.com/icatalog/zr/full.aspx?Page=51

http://www.blackdragonauto.com/icatalog/zr/full.aspx?Page=55

Hope your front discs,rear drums, caliper, and master vac brake booster are ok.

You will need brake fluid and caliper grease.

[FastWoman]

If you're really on a budget, and if the brake linings still have some life on them, go ahead and leave them. Worry instead about the hydraulics. Buy the rebuilding kits Blue suggests. I've done my front calipers and rear cylinders before, and it's not hard. I've never done the master. Anyway, if the brake linings were good in 2000, they're probably still good.

That said, if you can afford the linings too, I'd go ahead and replace them while you're into the job.

PS to Blue: I've really enjoyed following your evolving image!

[sam280z]

1: Get a can of kroil and spray all the flare nuts.

2: Get a name brand flare nut wrench so you don't round off the flare nuts. If they won't budge after treating with kroil, use a butane torch to heat them. This will save you from having to change the hard lines.

3: Plan on changing the flexible lines as well as the parts listed by Blue.

If this is an occasional driver / show car consider using silicone (DOT5) fluid. It is not for racing but extends the life of seals and does not absorb water. If you go this route, you will want to flush the system with alcohol and compressed air.

One thing to be careful of with the master cylinder, if you elect not to rebuild or replace, the act of bleeding the brakes can damage the seals if there is any corrosion inside the MC. This is because the piston will move past areas that it normally does not encounter.

Sam

[CaptHamster]

@Blue: Thanks a ton, that REALLY helps point me in the right direction! As for the front brake pads, would pads from a 280 work? On BlackDragon catalog it says pad sets are for 280's, and I just want to make sure they'll still fit. Also, would it be worth getting a front brake caliper repair kit?

@FastWoman: Next chance I get I'm going to take a look and see how much lining we still have...I wouldn't bet on too much though. I honestly haven't even glanced at the brakes yet...

@sam280z: Thanks for the tips Sam. If this car was to be a daily driver (i.e. no racing, not even really spirited driving) would DOT5 fluid still be advisable? I'd prefer to have the seals last for as long as they can, or at least until we can fully go through the brakes when we have money. Also, what would a master cylinder rebuild involve? I can almost bet there will probably be corrosion inside the brake system.

Thanks for the tips everyone, keep 'em coming! We're so close to getting this car driving, I can almost feel it...and getting brakes, tires, etc., will be a huge boost for us!

[sam280z]

You can use DOT5 in a daily driver. I did for the past 10 years with no maintenance. Just pulled the brakes off of that car and the fluid looked brand new.

One downside to DOT5 is if water gets in the system, it will pool in the lowest point, causing corrosion. Easy to prevent- don't get water in there.

Another downside is a slightly softer pedal - DOT five is slightly compressible and entrains air very easily - don't shake the container. These two factors combine for a less than hard pedal feel.

I put the fluid in a mason jar and use a mityvac to pull a vacuum on it before installing to get the entrained air out.

I have never rebuilt a MC. Always replaced them.

Sam

[Unkle]

My 2 cents ? Don't cheap out or cut corners on brakes - someone else might pay

after you put the car through their door because you could not stop properly.

This is vital safety equipment - modern tires and suspension will surpass braking

ability that was designed for the S30 way back then.

This site is great for the average home mechanic to ''do it yourself '' and save some

cash , but brake performance should be pro designed to go over the top of what you

know your car can do !

[240260280z]

Yes 280z pads will work. Here is another supplier:

http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/SBC03

for brake line it is 3/16" dia and the fittings are "Japanese" M10 X 1mm

Copper Nickel Steel Alloy is good stuff. All steel will rust. Stainless steel is too hard to work with for most DIY-ers

[CaptHamster]

@sam280z: Thanks much. Any idea where I could maybe get a rebuilt MC from? If it's not much more than the rebuild kit and not worth the hassle, then that would be awesome.

@Unkle: Even though it looks like it, we're not trying to cheap out...the hard balance for us is balancing complete safety and reassurance (which I want before the car drives) and money and sense. I definitely want to know that the car stops before it even rolls (especially considering we live in an extremely hilly area), but neither my friend or I have enough money for a total brake system redo. That's why we're trying to replace what we can afford and see if the rest is salvageable and safe. If it turns out it isn't, we'll replace it. I just want everyone to know we're not these totally oblivious guys trying to get an old Z street racing or drifting or some other stupid crap with nothing but some oil and and new tires. We're not those kind of people, thankfully!

@Blue: Thanks much. I really appreciate how super helpful you've been...I've already got all my part numbers and prices ready to go, so thanks a ton!!!

[ajmcforester]

MC rebuilding is not hard and is a lot cheaper I picked up a Tokico set for $10

I'd also to the hydrolics for the clutch while your at it the clutch MC rebuild was $5 and the Slave rebuild was $4

Well worth the money.

[ajmcforester]

I'd also add a rear hardware kit, their cheap, and it gives you new retainers, springs, clips, and some other this and thats for the drums. It is a good way to keep the shoes from digging into the drum, and keeps the wearing more even across the pad.

Remember the cheapest way it to do it right the first time

[ZCCOR#109]

I'd also add a rear hardware kit, their cheap, and it gives you new retainers, springs, clips, and some other this and thats for the drums. It is a good way to keep the shoes from digging into the drum, and keeps the wearing more even across the pad.

Remember the cheapest way it to do it right the first time

Do it correct the first time. Work ALL the components, replace the flexable lines, check for rust on the hard lines, rebuild all cylinders. You will be set.

Amen, read.. read..read..up on brakes. They are simple to overhaul but there is skill involved and knowledge required. Remember if you change to synthetic or silicone fluid as I did, you have to purge all the current fluid from lines and all the cyclinders.