Front end alignment quandry

[Randalla]

I recently rebuilt the front end on my 1971 240-Z (bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, rack boots, etc.). I purchased a set of tie rod ends from Rock Auto and installed them with the rest of the new parts. I counted the turns coming off and replicated that in reverse when installing the new tie rods. After lowing the car off the jack stands I noticed the ties were severely towed out. It was vary obvious to the eye. My assumption at that point was that the tie rods may have been a slightly different length so counting the turns may not have provided a "close" measurement. Next step was taking the car to my local alignment shop to have them set it to spec. Later in the day I got a call telling me they had bottomed out the tie rod ends on the rack and the car still has way too much toe out (still very apparent to the eye). My next step was to measure the exterior length of the tie rod end and compare it with another tie rod of a different brand. I also measure the depth of the threaded hole to see if there was more or less adjustment on one or the other. The difference is minimal, certainly not enough to compensate for the toe out condition. So....now I am second guessing my install and wondering what I could have done wrong. Has anyone had similar issues? Is it possible to install the steering knuckles backwards to cause this condition? Is there adjustment on the inner tie rods that may have changed while threading the outer tie rods off/on. I'm stumped at this point.

[jmortensen]

I don't think you can switch sides, because the end is angled wrong and I think it would be pretty apparent. Might be worth double checking the part number. A longer tie rod would be a nice thing for guy with longer front control arms, so they didn't run the tie rods with just a couple threads engaged. If you figure out that it is the wrong part, post the part number.

[Randalla]

Have now measured three different tie rods from different makers and they only vary by 1/8" in total length so I am pretty sure at this point that the parts are correct and not the problem. Took pics today of a friends car and compared my install with his and nothing stands out as being different. Are there any ways to get more adjustment, short of turning the tie rods on or off? I can't for the life of me see what's wrong. Can the inner tie rods be turned in or out to gain any adjustment? I've been told they are fixed. Still scratching my head as are two techs and another friend and 240-Z owner.

[acador]

Is it possible that the front bushing on the tension rod is missing or incorrect causing the control arm to angle back too far? I would think that would cause the swaybar to not line up though.

[cozye]

I did the same install on my 280, with the tie rod ends from rock auto. Went smooth, no issues, and my alignment was near perfect when I took it to have it checked.

I don't remember all of the specific details, but do you suppose it's possible you got the knuckles mixed up from the ball joints ? I could see how possibly swapping right for left, then flipping upside down might initially work, but mess up the angle on the knuckle. It's the only reasonable explanation I can think of. Everything else is fixed.

[LeonV]

I too used rockauto tie rod ends (Moog) with no problem. I would double check all suspension work in front, including bushing installation and orientation. Did you torque everything down with the car loaded?

[acador]

I had toe-out in my mind not toe-in when I made my original reply so please disregard. I think cozye's idea of the knuckles being reversed is a possiblity. They should lean inward if installed correctly.

[Randalla]

I'm having measurements taken today to try to narrow down the possibilities. I vaguely recall that the steering knuckles had an R or L stamped on them to indicate orientation. Anyone else remember? At this point I agree that having the steering knuckles reversed is the only possibility I can think of.

[John Coffey]

Steering knuckles are right and left.

LCA bushings are installed with the thick part behind the LCA.

Brake calipers are towards the rear of the car.

[Randalla]

Well, turns out my car has aftermarket camber adjusters on it and once the alignment shop realized that they were able to use the additional adjustment to align the toe in/out properly. I'm still mystified how simply replacing tie rod ends, while counting turns off and on, could have produced a condition that was so far out of spec. Apparently installing camber adjusters "in the day" was common practice when upgrading suspension for performance (there are no factory adjustment otherwise). My car seems to have factory suspension however, so no one noticed the adjusters upon initial visual inspection. Thanks for the help.

[Randalla]

I should have made it clear in my previous post that the camber kit was the one to offset the control arm bushings rather than the strut tower camber kit.

[5thhorsemann]

Got Pic's