Pertronix vs Points

[Tony D]

When I rebuilt my VW, I installed some of the first Pertronix system components available in the USA. I went over 65,000 miles on unleaded gas without TOUCHING A THING.

Now, from my historical perspective, I would have to adjust the points every 3,000 miles. Occasionally they would get dirt in them killing the engine (you always wondered why old timers smoked? Becuase that matchbook cover made cleaning points by the roadside a simple matter.) That experience convinced me. I converted my Corvair, and when I got into Z's I put one on my 73 and since 1985 when it was installed it hasn't skipped a beat once.

Points were good for the time. But things evolve. Pertronix is an LED switching system. It's an optical points system in it's simple form. It completely eliminated any chance of failure related to points (and there are several...let's not kid ourselves!)

I was in GM training when HEI was only 3-4 years old. The old timers didn't like it. But it's been around and proven for over 40 years. While it is possible a CONTROL MODULE can go bad, the OPTICAL sensors and simple hall-effect sensors simply don't usually have problems.

I would run an aftermarket HEI module, optical trigger, and a $13 stock HEI in the glove box (only because I'm an old-timer who grew up on the failure prone GM 1st generation modules---the aftermarket modules are better, and don't seem to fail like the low-bid OEM or cheap wells aftermarket stuff...)

I suggested optical conversions to my friends who went to Glamis for their VW's back in the early 90's. One guy came back raving that this was the first time in 22 years of going to Glamis every weekend in season that his rail didn't die at least once during the weekend making him break out the points file and have him kneeling in the burning sand over a hot engine and extractor system!

I would lose the sentiment. Points simply do not have the ability to provide reliable ignition on their own at the higher-gaps that promote better burn and lower emissions. This was why OEM's got rid of them, and that's why you should too!

[Arne]

Tony D makes some good points. (No pun intended.) I do see an error, in that the Pertronix Ignitor is not an optical (LED) system, it is a Hall-effect (magnetic) system. But either way, it is a simple—and in theory—more reliable way to fire the coil.

But here's where Tony's arguments are not as persuasive: the available options in affordable electronic ignitions for a 240Z are not always reliable in and of themselves. The Pertronix system is prone to burn-out if you leave the ignition switch on with the engine off, and some people have experienced problems with the notorious green tape and retaining the magnets. The ZX ignitions have a relatively high failure rate of their (admittedly 30 year old) control modules. (I suspect that the Mallory Unilite—which is an optical system—is probably more reliable. But it is not as affordable. I do not know anything about the reliability of the Crane ignition, it is also optical.)

Unlike points, a failed electronic ignition can rarely be repaired at roadside. All you can do is replace the failed component. When I tried the ZX ignition in my car, I carried a spare E12-80. While I never had to use it myself, it did get a fellow member's 240Z home after his module failed w/o warning in the registration line for a Datsun show. Now that I have the Pertronix in my car, I carry a set of points and the other necessary bits with me, just in case.

I'm not advocating that everyone stay with—or change back to—points. Far from it. There ARE benefits to electronic ignition. But it is not a magic bullet. If your ignition is not performing correctly with points, converting will only fix the problem if the parts you replace (i.e. the points and condenser, or the distributor in the case of the ZX swap) was/were the root problem. If you are having other issues—weak coil, faulty or incorrect wiring, etc.—the problem will still exist w/o the points. And while the need for regular maintenance is greatly reduced, you can't expect 100% reliability with the currently available affordable systems.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Arne

[Zforce]

Check this out, a brand new 2011 Cessna 182 for nearly 400,000 dollars still uses points to trigger the magnetos. Why ? Because it is nearly failure proof and there are two of them for redundancy and performance, but mainly redundancy.

[Arne]

The aircraft/reliability argument is often cited in favor of points. But the aircraft world is different. What's the required maintenance schedule for the points on said Cessna? How many hours run-time before they require replacement? Different requirements, different situation. I don't consider aircraft experience to be directly comparable to our Z cars.

[Zforce]

The aircraft/reliability argument is often cited in favor of points. But the aircraft world is different. What's the required maintenance schedule for the points on said Cessna? How many hours run-time before they require replacement? Different requirements, different situation. I don't consider aircraft experience to be directly comparable to our Z cars.

Wasnt it you that said you keep a spare set of points because you don't trust the Pertronix ? Aircraft still use points to remove the failure mode that exists with electronic devices for safety. Even aircraft engines that use electronic ignition still use a magneto with points as a back up. And you are wrong about Aviation not directly comparable to Z-cars or automobiles in general. Porsche got faa certification on one of thier 911 CAR engines in 1980 in the Mooney PFM and they stood by their product for over 20 years. Anti locking brakes came from airplanes, fuel injection, water injection, turbo charging, supercharging, turbosupercharging all came from aviation first, and I bet I'm leaving out alot more. And another thing, who cares what the maintenence schedule is, Aviation is highly regulated for safety so people don't get killed, most people who drove cars before electronic ignition would drive the car untill the points were so worn out that the engine wouldnt even start, then go and get a tune up.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Zforce

[doradox]

Nothing wrong with a well maintained distributor with points. Well maintained. Most folks have no idea how a set of points and condenser function let alone what is required for them to perform properly and reliably. My first 73, which I bought used with 60,000 miles on it, ran just fine for another 140,000 with the stock point distributor. Yeah, they needed serviced every 10,000 miles or so and I had the distributor rebuilt at 120K but they were far from unreliable.

Steve

[Arne]

Wasnt it you that said you keep a spare set of points because you don't trust the Pertronix ?

Yes, it was, and I do. But that's just my style. I carried a spare E12-80 module when I ran the ZX dizzy. You may be interested to note that I also carried a spare set of points in the car while I still ran points. Didn't trust them, either. And obviously, while Cessna prefers mechanical points over electronics, they don't trust them either, hence the redundant set.

I'm not saying that points are worthless and electronic is the answer. Nor vice versa. The fact is—in my opinion—there's no single over-riding reason to consider either option as the end-all and be-all. Both have their supporters, benefits and flaws. Neither is perfect. When they are working, either will do the job. Failure of either can strand you somewhere inconvenient.

All of us use our cars differently, and we all have different priorities and levels of risk-tolerance. We need to select the option that meets our personal needs and that we are most comfortable with, and acknowledge that our choice may not be the best option for everyone. There's room for both.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Arne

[5thhorsemann]

I think the set and forget benifit of my Pertronix module is the most attractive thing about it. What, like 15 min. to install and you are done with the timing for good, unless it fails. There are many more things on the Z that require tinkering, and if Pertronix made a set and forget widget to replace those items, they would also be installed in my car. I don't mind working on my baby, but I prefer to drive her.

[Zforce]

Yes, it was, and I do. But that's just my style. I carried a spare E12-80 module when I ran the ZX dizzy. You may be interested to note that I also carried a spare set of points in the car while I still ran points. Didn't trust them, either. And obviously, while Cessna prefers mechanical points over electronics, they don't trust them either, hence the redundant set.

I'm not saying that points are worthless and electronic is the answer. Nor vice versa. The fact is—in my opinion—there's no single over-riding reason to consider either option as the end-all and be-all. Both have their supporters, benefits and flaws. Neither is perfect. When they are working, either will do the job. Failure of either can strand you somewhere inconvenient.

All of us use our cars differently, and we all have different priorities and levels of risk-tolerance. We need to select the option that meets our personal needs and that we are most comfortable with, and acknowledge that our choice may not be the best option for everyone. There's room for both.

I aggree 100 % Arne

[91stang&240z]

Hi.my name is eddie i drive a 1970 240z, and im doing the same thing on my z. Didi you remove the stock resistor and remplaced for a 30amp pentronic power relay.cause pentronic require 12v.

[91stang&240z]

I have crane box ign.

[91stang&240z]

Hi ,, did you remove the stock resistor. With your system..a have a crane box on my 70 240z,