Is my door bent? Do I need new hinges? Door alignment problems within...

[jepherz]

Hello all,

Looking for some help on my door alignment. It was aligned goofy when I got the car but I figured I would get it fixed when I replaced the rocker panel. Now that I'm trying to align the new rocker panel with the door, it just isn't cooperating.

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/jepherz/Datsun?feat=embedwebsite#5625581697719456946"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ObTlnTAjVkc/ThIUv5uB1LI/AAAAAAAAA70/fgKsSkM7qPc/s144/DSC00924.jpg" height="108" width="144" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XPAtqkPJsU8JbO4DD94sWA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tyQfe48APOY/ThIU5pjPvbI/AAAAAAAAA78/9c8EqwJlA2Y/s144/DSC00925.jpg" height="144" width="108" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/883fiE17ZsgStM63utwOGg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0l6DugwAMD8/ThIVEC6rDBI/AAAAAAAAA8E/MgkhW5XBlDU/s144/DSC00926.jpg" height="108" width="144" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pJzxcPAd8VjX4FJkdZS2cA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-89-e458Ob7c/ThIVphAzI0I/AAAAAAAAA8c/9ZUDNxnXw2E/s144/DSC00927.jpg" height="108" width="144" /></a>

I tried to capture the problem in the photos but figure I need to explain it as well. When the door is aligned horizontally, the rear bottom portion is aligned with the dog leg. However, as you move up the body line towards the top rear of the door, the door is pushed in. Then, on the front of the door, the bottom of the door sticks out so far that the gap between the door and new rocker panel is huge.

Does this mean my hinges or door are tweaked or is there a way to fix this?

Thanks for your help!

Edited July 4, 2011 by jepherz

[Z train]

Strip the door completely.Make sure IT isn't tweaked.Take the door to a body guy that knows his sh!t and ask him if the door is tweaked.After that,the body is the only thing.

[Arne]

There is another possibility, if any of the parts (body, hinges or door shell) are early 240Z parts. There have been reports from others that Some Series 1 240Z doors and hinges are different. The alignment issues you describe sound exactly like others I've heard from this problem. What year is your car and the associated parts?

[jepherz]

Arne, can you elaborate a little bit on what you're talking about? The car is a '73 and the doors are all original as far as I know.

I guess I brought up the question if the door was tweaked originally, but honestly I don't see anything wrong with it nor does the body have any evidence of damage that would suggest it has been in a wreck. I'm not sure who I could talk to anyways that would really know enough as to how to check the door for straightness.

[Walter Moore]

Are you certain that the door is original? My driver's door has the opposite problem. I have a 71, and I am fairly certain that my driver's door came off of a much later car. My driver's door fits OK, except at the bottom it is about as far IN as yours is OUT. There is no fixing the door if this is the problem, except to replace it with a door from the correct year.

Since I already have the car painted, and only wanted a driver anyway, I have the project scheduled for a later date. (Like when it starts to bother me, which may be never.) But on your car it looks like a problem.

[palosfv3]

Check the front and rear of the door shell jamb at the belt line intersection for stress cracks. Its a common spot for this to happen. It will result in the door twisting similarly to your picture. Also make sure you have the body supported so it doesn't cause any flexing of the structure and the door latch and striker plate removed. Its preferable to have the car supported with the weight on the suspension when replacing rockers. It appears your suspension is removed , so the next best place is as near as possible to the suspension anchor points.

[Arne]

Walter describes the reverse issue from the one I was thinking about. A later door on early (Series 1) hinges is succked in at the bottom. The other way around (later hinges on an early door) can cause the problem you are seeing.

Obviously, if the door shell is truly original, this issue is not the cause. This could only happen if an earlier door sholl was substituted on your car at some time in the past.

[jepherz]

I will do my best to try and see if the door is original. I believe the paint on the door has all of the same layers on it, which is why I'm thinking it is; however I will double check and compare it with other known original parts of the car. So, Arne, it sounds like I may have a later door (which should be right for a '73, right?) and early hinges? So maybe I just need to find another set of hinges? If that ends up being the case, that would be great! I definitely don't think finding the correct year door would be easy...

I really don't want to go through all of the trouble of doing all of this serious body reconstruction and end up with mismatched panels in the end. Maybe there's a way I can put up a WTB ad for a set of hinges or something that someone may have on a parts car. It sucks cause as random as it is to find one of these cars in a junkyard, there was a complete one a few months ago locally, a '73 too!

[Arne]

Heres a way to tell about the hinges. I think the upper hinges are all the same. But the lower hinge is the one with the door stop on it. The early hinges only have one intermediate step (between closed and full open), but the later hinges have two intermediate steps. So if your hinge has one step, it's probably wrong. If it has two, it should be correct and you problem is elsewhere.

[jepherz]

Just doing some brainstorming on this subject since I'll have plenty of time before finding the opposing door. Anyways, can anyone shoot any of my assumptions down here?

The external of the body of all 70-73 cars is the same.

The door support (A pillar) of all 70-73 cars is the same.

This means that any 70-71 door+hinge would work fine on any 72-73 and vice-versa.

Therefore the problem only arises when you use a 70-71 door with a 72-73 hinge or vice versa.

If this is all true, and I do indeed have either a early model door with a later hinge or early model hinge with a later door, I should be able to repair the problem by just putting the other hinge on. Then even if I have an early model door, an early model hinge should fix the problem.

I will be pulling off both doors and hinge sets tonight since I know my driver's side to be good, and checking for any differences via measurements.

Another solution for my problem would be to face the lower hinge, and a similar solution for those with the opposite problem would be to place a shim in between the hinge and the door support on the car. A few washers may work fine. Although, if the upper hinge is at all different, this would pose a problem as the two hinges may be mis-aligned.

Another interesting find was that brand new hinges are available from the Z store, but it lists the same hinge for 70-75... Maybe the difference is actually 240/260 compared to 280's? That would make more sense to me. Maybe someone here is nice enough to take a picture of their 280 hinges for me to look at :-)

Again, I will post back up if I find anything out. Thanks for all of your help so far.

[Arne]

Just doing some brainstorming on this subject since I'll have plenty of time before finding the opposing door. Anyways, can anyone shoot any of my assumptions down here?

The external of the body of all 70-73 cars is the same.

The door support (A pillar) of all 70-73 cars is the same.

This means that any 70-71 door+hinge would work fine on any 72-73 and vice-versa.

Therefore the problem only arises when you use a 70-71 door with a 72-73 hinge or vice versa.

That is what has been reported by a few people, but it has not been seen often enough that I would call it a "confirmed" issue. I'd call it a working theory, at this point.

Another interesting find was that brand new hinges are available from the Z store, but it lists the same hinge for 70-75...

That is one of the reasons that it is only a working theory, and not confirmed. I can say that there was a documented difference in the hinges through 12/70 and later, although the later 240Z hinges are supposed to be able to replace the early ones. My guess is that—if there is an alignment issue—it is between Series 1 and later hinges. You might PM a7dz (or search his posts here) on hinges. I know he ran into this issue on his Series 1 car. He tried to use a later pair of hinges and ran into this exact alignment issue. I sent him the lower hinge from my Series 1 parts car and that fixed it.

[jepherz]

Great, I found his thread http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?24503-Door-hinges&highlight=

I'll be making similar measurements in a few hours.