Spindle pin removal tool survey

[Z-Engineer]

Is anybody making these in bulk for sale?

I am not aware of the pullers being made in bulk. They are not cheap to produce and with the size of the nuts, large open end wrenches are needed to operate the puller. I expended between $150 and $200 for the wrenches and puller when it was all said and done. However, we have quite a few first generation Zs in our club and pull pins several times a year. These pullers were designed to last.

Steve

[Marty Rogan]

I made a few of the tools. A couple of members here I sold to. Seppy72(?) and Marty Rogen.

The materials I made them with are pretty much off the shelf parts.

metric all-thread 12m x1.25

1 metric nut

2 mag wheel lugnuts with open end 12m x1.25 napa

pipe

thrust bearing

The shank of the lugnut will fit into the thrust bearing, the thrust bearing will ride on the end of the pipe.

I used a few other things like a bronze bushing and washers, but not needed when using the thrust bearing.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/dlh2460/spindle%20pin%20tool/spindlepintool001.jpg

I can attest to Darrel's tool working pretty well. I think the bearing was a big improvement. I was able to pull 2 cars sets of pins out in an average of 15 - 20 minutes, without a lot of effort.

I loaned it to a buddy, who had the connection break. He had it re-welded and it worked fine after that.

Overall, I tink the tool worked well.

Marty

[Jeff G 78]

I have a design worked out, but I have been spending every waking minute prepping my 260 for a race next weekend, so I never got around to making them. After the race, I could probably knock a few out. My plan is to use 1" acme thread rod to get maximum wear and pulling power.

[zKars]

Like many of you, each time this thread or similar comes up, I start dreaming of better ways of designing this tool.

One of the challenges of building them is getting the 12x1.25 threads "created" in the end of threaded rod. Certainly in my experience, the strength of these threads is critical as I have pulled a few threaded inserts out and stripped some threads that where directly cut into the end of the rod. Getting machinest's involved is often costly.

So I started thinking about alternative sources of pre-existing hardened good quality female threads of this dimension. One that come to mind is our wheel nuts. There are certainly lots of wheel nuts out there, but which ones might have the properties we desire? Hard, lots of thread depth at least.

So looked through my predictable assortment of wheel nuts and found a set of old wheel locks. No idea which brand, but I think that due to the security aspect, these are likely pretty hard.

Now the hard part of this approach for the average home mechanic is attaching a wheel nut to the end of the threaded rod. Welding is the most obvious approach.

Lucky me, the old miller MIG in the corner is called to service, and voila I have new hard long threads to use on the next pin I have to pull. I'll report back on the success likely sooner than later. And I have three more to use if this breaks or to make 3 more!

Not sure if the cost of set of good quality locks plus the cost of a welder to do this if you don't have access is actually any cheaper or better than the internal threading/machinist approach, but this is just another alternative to this never ending challenge.

Next great idea is a double ended puller. Yank from both ends. Seems like it works against itself? Not if its locked in the center. Stretch is good for you. Or if you push from one end while pulling from the other....

Or how about this? Thread a good hard aftermarket wheel nut onto the spindle pin nice and tight and use a big bad air impact gun to attempt to jar and spin the pin to get it free? Hit ir both directions by using a wheel nut and another thin nut locked to it to go CCW like when your pulling studs. I love how Coffee says he uses a big bad air hammer to knock them out with axial impact. Show them no mercy!

Edited July 6, 2013 by zKars

[Darrel]

You can see in my pic Marty posted the guts of the tool. I didn't take a pic of the other end.

I use the mag wheel lug nuts to do the pulling and to thread on the end with a lock nut to keep it secure and if need be easier to replace if it gets stripped. A lot more thread engagement for both ends. What costs most in this set up is the bearing and the metric threaded rod. If you make one yourself, you have to buy a meter long rod. Then you have enough to make three.

The mag wheel nuts are threaded all the way through and only need the decorative cap taken off, just a press fit. I pinched them off with the bench vise.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Darrel

[rosaluma]

You can see in my pic Marty posted the guts of the tool. I didn't take a pic of the other end.

I use the mag wheel lug nuts to do the pulling and to thread on the end with a lock nut to keep it secure and if need be easier to replace if it gets stripped. A lot more thread engagement for both ends. What costs most in this set up is the bearing and the metric threaded rod. If you make one yourself, you have to buy a meter long rod. Then you have enough to make three.

The mag wheel nuts are threaded all the way through and only need the decorative cap taken off, just a press fit. I pinched them off with the bench vise.

Darrel, I am in need of a tool like the one you made/sold to other members. Sure would help. I hacked off the passengers side pin, with a lot of work, was able to drive it out. However, I know there has to be a better way.

[Jeff G 78]

It has been a LONG time since I promised that I would build a better mousetrap, but I'm finally getting close to actually building the prototype.  I bought the acme rod, nuts and the pipe and I will use a S30 front strut bearing on the first puller.  I just need to cut to length and machine the acme rod to accept the spindle pin and weld a large washer onto the pipe for the bearing reaction plate.

 

With any luck, I should have a working tool very soon.

 

If it works as well as I hope, I will make a batch of them and offer them for sale.  The cost will need to be fairly high since the materials I'm using are very pricey.  I expect the retail cost to be around $75 - $100 depending on the final design.  It's not cheap, but if the tool can save the pins, it will pay for itself in pin cost and machine shop labor if the Z owner has to have the pins professionally removed and replaced.

 

Is there anybody who needs to pull their pins soon?  I bought enough material to build three prototypes, so once I am happy with the first puller I am willing to sell the next two at the cost of materials only which should be around $50 each in order to get feedback so I can get all the details right..

[Travel'n Man]

I bought a tool when I removed mine, after soaking for 2 days, it stripped it out in about 9.6 seconds...............hope your design is better than I wasted $75 on.

[zKars]

It's worth mentioning that there is no one tool that will remove all spindle pins. Sometimes they are more stuck than the strength of the puller materials can handle. This is unfortunately more common than I care to think about.

I humbly refer you to a reference post on hybridz where we discussed the various spindle pin removal difficulty "levels". Gives us a reference point and common language.

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/122593-spindle-pin-club/

[zcarnut]

zKars is right. If the spindle pin is "rust-welded" to the strut, no tool will save it. You will have to cut the spindle and press out the pieces. Yes, the special pullers will help (along with lots of heat), but it’s no guarantee.

 

What I would like to see someone make and sell stainless steel spindle pins (and the small locking pin as well). Yes, I realize that this is a critical suspension item, but a good mechanical engineer should be able to specify the details.

 

This would also allow having a larger diameter for the end nuts, say 14mm instead of 12mm, or even use SAE 9/16 inch fine pitch threads because fine pitch stainless metic hardware is difficult (and expensive) to get here in the U.S.

[Jeff G 78]

Absolutely correct guys!  I have had one of those cars where the pins simply would not come out no matter what.  I had to cut mine and even then, the 40 ton press at work was maxed out to get them to budge and eventually press out of the knuckle.  Surprisingly, the car in question is completely rust-free.  I believe the pins and/or control arms were slightly bent from a rear end hit.

 

Mitchell, I'm curious if the tool failed or the spindle pin threads failed.  The tool I am making should never fail and with proper machining of the tool's interface to the spindle pin, I don't think the pin threads will fail either as long as the pin has any chance of removal.  Of course, I have not yet proved this theory.  I hope to do that soon.

 

I know that no tool will pull every pin, but the tools I have seen and used were not optimized at best and pure junk at worst.  I am just trying to build a tool that gives the best chance of pin removal.  If I make just one for myself and if works on all pins that can be removed, I will be a happy camper.  If I can then supply others with a quality tool, all the better, but my main goal is to make one for myself.

 

I agree the pin design and material is the problem.  I also think that it takes a decade or so before they corrode into the knuckle, so as long as the pins are replaced and maintained every few years, I think the Nissan pins will work without redesign.  With a good puller, maintenance would be a breeze.

 

The other thing I have never understood was the need for the wedge pin.  I see no need for the pin to be kept stationary once the nuts at each end are tightened.  I'm convinced that the wedge distorts the steel of the spindle pin and is a large part of the removal woes.  Besides that, the wedge hole is likely where some of the moisture gets into the joint.  What if the wedge hole is turned into a zerk fitting somehow?  I haven't studied it, but maybe there is a way to do it.

[Darrel]

I don't use the lock pin. I would suggest putting silicone as a plug, making sure it doesn't interfere once set up with the pin.

 

I did swap out struts since I put new bushings in and they slid in and out easier than the first time I pulled the pins.

 

I have run numerous track days and have had no problems.

 

I would suggest having parts you can replace rather than welded together.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Darrel