What are the top 20 early Z-car modifications considered to be "molestation"?

[Jetaway]

Chris,

I think you may find that in the SF bay area, prices for a decent "rust free" 240Z have gone up over the last 3 years. My guess is that a car in good running order with no rust will cost about $7-10K. This is not a for a restored car, but a drivable 240 that needs minor cosmetic or interior work. Given the cost of rust repairs, paying a bit more is worth it...

In fact, I've recently seen 240z's with minor rust, poorly repaired panels, needing paint, etc, selling for $10K, and still getting buyers!

I, I, ... lucked out on something? I mean, your talking to a guy who thought this web-thing was at best a useful novelty and more than likely a fad. No smiley, tiz sad but true.

Chris

[gtom]

That is the dealer I spoke with...I went back and looked through my emails and they were in fact asking $22,500. At the same time my "low mileage" '73 popped up on ebay and I snapped it up for $18,500. The seller turned out to be less than honest and I've spent a heck of a lot more sorting it out, with more to follow this winter but it will be near concourse. BTW that seller just had another car on ebay and had the gaul to refer to how awesome my car was...brutal. Any way in the end, I'll be into this car for 2X what I could get for it....sorry for the threadjack again, I'll step off now.

I know the feeling...went down the same road with my last ebay "restored rustfree" '72 BMW '02 tii...got deep into it and had to finish it. Sold it for half of what I had into it...but at least the buyer is happy. So I did my good deed and moved on. BTW, what is that sellers ebay ID?...and no problem about the threadjack,...its more relevant than throwing down about the use of words and grammar. Proves how hard it is to find a good car out there these days and why prices are still going up...even in this market...

[gtom]

Summary: The top 8 early Z-car modifications considered to be "m word" as per thread (to be taken with a grain of salt, of course)

1. Non-factory original color

2. Non-factory pop-up glass sunroof

3. Chevy SB V8 engine swap

4. Racing seat swap (non race cars)

5. Blacked out engine bay

6. Cutting door panels to accommodate speakers

7. Non-factory fender flares and body kits

8. Installing incorrect parts from a different manufacturer

Conclusion: Making these modifications to an early Z-car may pose risk of lowering the car's market value and, in turn, may drive up the prices of vehicles that have not made these modifications.

[jmortensen]

When you talk about molesting early Z's the first thing that comes to my mind is the smog equipment, the barcalounger springs, long steer knuckles, and the 4 speed 3.36 combo. Why did we get so screwed?

[Arne]

What a relief! My car suffers from none of these things.

But here are some additional thoughts:

1. Non-factory original color

If the goal is to make it look stock, non-factory might be bad. On the other hand, for a resto-mod, a good (complete, inside and out) color change can be an important part of the job. Not always bad.

2. Non-factory pop-up glass sunroof

Some people don't mind these. (My wife, for example.) And they do improve the ventilation. So to each their own.

3. Chevy SB V8 engine swap

Zs have always been swap-friendly. The SBC swap has a long history in Zs. If you want a Z with substantial power, it really is the affordable way to go. No, I don't want one, but they aren't automatically bad.

4. Racing seat swap (non race cars)

Face it - the factory 240Z seats aren't all that great. For long distance driving I'd want a seat swap of some sort myself. So again, not necessarily bad.

5. Blacked out engine bay

Another item that depends on the context and how well it's done. Can really help show off a chrome/polished accented engine.

6. Cutting door panels to accommodate speakers

If you are customizing the interior, why not? It's a good place for speakers.

7. Non-factory fender flares and body kits

Personal preference. Shoot, my BRE spook is non-factory. Wouldn't want my car to be without it. Done well and tastefully, this can be acceptable.

8. Installing incorrect parts from a different manufacturer

Sorry, I can't accept this one blindly, either. Honda heater blower motors and wiper motor swaps are darned good improvements for a car that needs to be used in all weather conditions.

So after reviewing this list, I'd have to say that if a modification doesn't damage the car in some way (like butchered wiring mods), let's not be judgmental. They are cars. Modify them as you like, and then drive them.

[gtom]

Summary: The top 8 early Z-car modifications considered to be "m word" as per thread (to be taken with a grain of salt, of course)

1. Non-factory original color

2. Non-factory pop-up glass sunroof

3. Chevy SB V8 engine swap

4. Racing seat swap (non race cars)

5. Blacked out engine bay

6. Cutting door panels to accommodate speakers

7. Non-factory fender flares and body kits

8. Installing incorrect parts from a different manufacturer

Conclusion: Making these modifications to an early Z-car may pose risk of lowering the car's market value and, in turn, may drive up the prices of vehicles that have not made these modifications.

Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1975-Datsun-240Z-/160658159990?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2567f8f976#ht_500wt_1182

[ta240]

Id have to say this:

(also note the small 'vents' on the front fenders)

Edited September 28, 2011 by ta240

[Threehz]

Gtom, you said you are looking for an early z, but I didn't see mentioned anywhere if by early you meant only a 1970, or any 240, or any 240, 260, or 280 (which many consider the early/classic Z's). You can definitely find a great unmolested 280 for a fraction of the price of a 240. If you aren't exclusively looking for a 240 then I can tell that I see great 280's pass through the Tucson/Phoenix area all the time for great prices and a lot of them aren't all that messed with. (Not to mention a lot with modifications that might be preferred depending on exactly what YOU want)

For instance I found my 280Z completely "unmolested" except for a sounds system (easily removable, but I was happily surprised to find it) and in great condition for a more then reasonable price.

So anyhow for one, what year range Z are you looking for?

And also, what are you looking for in a Z?

Obviously this thread is to get a response from the Z community about what the general consensus is on Z car "molestations" that are either over the edge or could reduce it's value. You had made the summary above, so is that what you believe to be the top 8 violations of Z purity?

Sorry for the use of the M word but I believe it's usage is widely accepted and used to describe the altering of anything to a less desirable state.

my2cents FWIW

[Jetaway]

Gtom,

Check your PM's. I may have a line on something for you.

Chris

[Zs-ondabrain]

There are some things that some may call Molesting, but if you consider what is completely reversable, the definition may change a little. The only REAL Molestation of a Zcar would be "Irreversable mods" such as holes (ie: Sunroofs, fender vents, etc), welding or drilling holes to bolt on parts. Almost everything else is reversable. Tires can be swapped, 4 lugnuts at a time. Paint, at this point is 41 years or newer and will show signs of fade, wear and damage. So a Tasteful repaint is not only called for but occasionally a Necessity. Proper paint protects the body.

Creature comforts of the individual owner is for the owner. Be it seats, stereo, speaker boxes or Shag fricken carpet. Once again, this is not Molesting, if it can easily be replaced. And as for Offending someone with the word Molest, non-molested or abomination, these words are commonly used words in the classic car world. Anyone who has read a classic car Ad will read this on occasion from someone describing their car for sale as Un-Molested. If you take offence to the words, then you are not in your right mind, especially if you confuse a car with a person who has in fact been molested. Seriously E? So if anyone here is offended at the words or phrase, please kindly tell every one selling their classic car to not use the terms mentioned above. What-ever.

The great thing about most upgrades, mine included, is that they can be removed as easily as they were installed. Engine parts are replacable, distributors, headers, alternators etc. It can all go back to stock. So find the car that suits your needs, with minimal holes and mods and go from there.

Good luck,

Dave

[gtom]

Gtom, you said you are looking for an early z, but I didn't see mentioned anywhere if by early you meant only a 1970, or any 240, or any 240, 260, or 280 (which many consider the early/classic Z's). You can definitely find a great unmolested 280 for a fraction of the price of a 240. If you aren't exclusively looking for a 240 then I can tell that I see great 280's pass through the Tucson/Phoenix area all the time for great prices and a lot of them aren't all that messed with. (Not to mention a lot with modifications that might be preferred depending on exactly what YOU want)

For instance I found my 280Z completely "unmolested" except for a sounds system (easily removable, but I was happily surprised to find it) and in great condition for a more then reasonable price.

So anyhow for one, what year range Z are you looking for?

And also, what are you looking for in a Z?

Obviously this thread is to get a response from the Z community about what the general consensus is on Z car "molestations" that are either over the edge or could reduce it's value. You had made the summary above, so is that what you believe to be the top 8 violations of Z purity?

Sorry for the use of the M word but I believe it's usage is widely accepted and used to describe the altering of anything to a less desirable state.

my2cents FWIW

Thanks for your reply. You are right about 280Zs and I have been looking at them too. However, I will not be buying an early Z-car for any kind of practical reason, so I would likely try to acquire something more collectable. In this regard, I'd say, I am in the market for a '70 to '73 Z-car.

About the summary of "m-word" modifications, hopefully, it is a start in the right direction to create some awareness about destroying the market value along with the value of the original intent of the early Z-cars. As for my beliefs? I made my contribution to the list, but I want to be clear that this thread is not about me, but rather about the early Z-car. What I envision my next Z-car as will most likely differ from that of another, however, if such a 'standard' list of "m-word" modifications were to exist, I would definitely respect it if not fully adhere to it.

[H4LIGHTS]

Because there are so many examples of the Z and they are available at a relatively affordable price the car lends itself to many owner modifications.

IMO many are good, others not. But a difference of opinion allows for all types of personal representations of what a Z should be.

This car was never an elitist type of sports vehicle, (Ferrari anyone?), and probably never will be.

It's still my favorite and I've owned many as well as many other marques from all over the world.

Buy what you like and do with it as you see fit. It's your car, your money, your opinion of taste.

My neighbor drives a Bentley Continental GT with a "tuner" grille kit, with the required vinyl "tuner" decal on the front fenders, also an aftermarket exhaust that makes it now sound like a pick-up truck. (IMO)

Personally, it looks / sounds hideous compared to the classic heavy mesh of the original grille and the distinctive exhaust note from the factory but he loves it and feels it adds a unique look and sound over the stock ones.

If you find what people do personally to their Z's abhorrent you may want to go for a different marque where only the correct purists congregate.

I can think of many of those types of car owners/clubs that cater to this view.