Arc Welding vs. Gas welding

[5thhorsemann]

I completely agree with everything you said, except for the part about me insisting on 220V. All I'm saying is it's a better machine. I started out with a 120V machine that drew 30 amps, and it would pop breakers left and right whenever I taxed its limitations. The bigger 120 V machines, Millers and Hobart’s, have taps which allow you to run on 120 or 220V.

I now am the proud owner of a Millermatic 210, with the spool gun, MIG torch and plasma cutter attachments, with the 3 gas bottle setup. I can weld aluminum, steel and stainless, the only set up required to go from one to the other is turning on the gas and changing the spool (for stainless), but I use mine to make a living.

You make an excellent point that has not yet been expanded upon. Before you buy anything, make sure your electrical supply can handle it. Look in the breaker box and check to see if you have the capacity to run the machine you are considering. If you don't know what you’re looking at in the breaker box, find someone that does, and get the most powerful machine you can support.

[black gold man]

Go to home Store like lowes pick one up give it a try.

90 day return policy if you don't like it. Yes you can use it and if your are not satisfied

you can return it. Not that i would do something like that.

[jmortensen]

The problem with going to Lowes is that they'll sell you a welder with no gas tank. You can plug it in and do some welding, but it's going to be flux core wire with no gas, which leaves lots of spatter and is not as good as gas shielded. So in order to really know what it's going to do when set up right you need a good regulator, gloves, mask, gas tank, and the right wire from your local welding store and then you can test it out. That's probably a couple hundred more bucks. If you get a quality welder (to me this means Lincoln or Miller) then you won't need to return it. Lowes does sell Lincoln, so it might not be a bad place to shop, but I wouldn't do it with the shady intention of flux core welding with no gas for a weekend and then returning it.

[Willoughby Z]

I build stainless steel railings for a living. Thank the gods, I've never had to weld anything on the car (knocking on wood)

I've never used a stick or MIG unit but I can "Sunday suit" weld with the best.

I use TIG (GTAW) exclusively and have used the same Maxstar 140 for nearly nine years on the jobsites. Some days, the amps have to be cranked to the max and the duty cycle pushes 80%. I never have dedicated circuits available, we just try to reduce the other high draw tools on the 30a lines as much as possible- rarely trips the breaker. The Miller just keeps on keepin' on.

I'm quick on my torch gas valve and I don't use any more argon than I need to keep the welds clean- an 80 cf cylinder lasts a long time.

That Eastwood box looks nice (made by Miller?) at a great price. Particularly bundled with a plasma cutter.

[pwd]

NOTE: Home Depot is getting into the gas cylinder exchange business through a partnership with Airgas. Expect to pay more, but at least it's convenient, even Sundays.

Now to get back on Thread, every garage/shop should have a small Oxy-Acetylene setup if for nothing else to HEAT things. Heating a press fit bearing/bushing red hot is one thing I don't know how to do using a TIG/MIG/ARC. Also, if you can "master the flame", there were plenty of old school hot rods built before the advent of TIG/MIG by "hammer welding", so it can definitely be done with only a torch. The "heat affected zone" is very high on Oxy-Acetylene and requires a lot of preparation and patience which makes the MIG much more attractive for sheet metal repairs, but you only need a small amperage gas MIG to get by. A 110V unit is sufficient, but a 220V machine is more desirable, the Millermatic 175 vs. Millermatic 130 for example. The 220V machines will also give you a "duty-cycle" advantage. If you plan on doing long, continuous welds without breaks to allow the machine to cool down, then get a beefier unit.

Arc welding is still cost effective for welding thick steel plate. You can pick up good used arc welders on Craigslist for cheap (because everyone wants MIGs these days). I run across Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC welders for between $250-$400. You will want the flexibility of an AC/DC output machine. These are still good for general purpose utility welding of frames/jigs/etc.

Combine a lightly used Millermatic 130 for about $350 (including gas cylinder!) with a used AC/DC arc welder and you can have capability from 24 gauge sheet metal to 1/2" plate steel for under $800. Add a small, used Oxy-Acet rig with torch set and cutting head for another $300 and you'll have a pretty complete setup for less than the price of a "good" MIG machine (Millermatic 211). The advantage of the MM211 is that you can add a Spoolgun for a couple hundred bucks and economically get an aluminum capability (requires another gas cylinder too).

The decision on what equipment to buy depends on what you intend to do on your car yourself. Structural welding (especially that which shows!) is best left to experts, so pay them to do it and make that up by doing the remainder yourself.

Good luck!

[black gold man]

Lowes sells Lincoln Electric 120 Volt MIG Flux-Cored Wire Feed Welder with gas 524.00

90 day non shady return policy.

jmortensen has a closet full of items he wanted to return it just made him feel to shady.

[Jeff G 78]

I bought a Hobart 140 110V MIG from Amazon last year. It is a great unit, but I'm wishing I would have gotten the Hobart 180 220V MIG. The 110V unit will weld everything that came stock on the car, but there are times when I need to weld roll cage parts on the race car or angle iron and other stuff around the house. Simple adds or repairs can be done on a cage, but the 110V welders are pretty much maxed out just below typical 1/4" thick steel. Building a roll cage from scratch should be done with a 220V MIG. People have done it with 110V, but it's not a good idea.

[jmortensen]

blackgold man, that welder is gas CAPABLE, but I haven't yet seen a welder that comes with a tank.

Jeff, no part of a Z roll cage should be thicker than .120. In fact SCCA recently said 1.5 x .095 was sufficient for a Z cage, and I think the min thickness for the plates to mount it is .100". A 110V Hobart should weld that with no problem whatsoever. There is no need to go to 220 to build a cage. I think if you're doing a drag cage the plates have to be 3/16". Either way, 220V is not necessary.

For your average car guy, duty cycle is never going to factor in. You're not typically laying long beads for hours on end. Its a tack weld here, or an inch long bead there. If you weld for too long on the car, you're going to warp something. The longest bead I've done on a car was most of the way around a cage tube. Then you stop and reposition and by the time you get back into place to pull the trigger again, your duty cycle problems are gone. At least that's the way it has gone for me. YMMV.

Edited November 20, 2011 by jmortensen

[Jeff G 78]

Well, the spreader plates have to be .125 for the racing I do (CCWS and LeMons), so right there, the HH140 is nearly maxed out. Otherwise, yes, the 110V MIG can weld a cage, but the duty cycle isn't nearly as good compared to a 220V MIG. The HH140 is only a 20% duty cycle at 90A compared to 30% at 130A for the HH180. BTW, CCWS and LeMons require 1.75" x .095" OR 1.5" x .120". We use 1.75" x .095" DOM.

Don't get me wrong, I love the HH140, but there are times I'd like to have one that will do 1/4 material with shielding gas.

[cozye]

I've run several spools of wire through my eastwood 135 with no problems. It welds just fine for the home shop. I've welded plenty of angle and channel with it as well. I've not run into any duty cycle issues with it. It also has the variable voltage control too, really easy to fine tune your heat on sheet metal. None of the other 110 welders have a variable voltage adjustment, except the miller I think. All the cheap migs had like 5-8 clicks for the control instead of a linear adjustment. This is the reason why a lot of "pro" welders knock the 110 migs..

Just look at the reviews on the thing. There are guys saying it welds as good as the $2000 miller on their truck!

Anyone looking for a home shop mig would be crazy not to look at this welder.

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html

[coop]

you are absolutely right. I was in the terminal after flying completely across the pacific at night and was literally wasted. acetylene + O2 = hot flame. Just got my thoughts crossed.

[John Coffey]

A good welder can do anything on a car with the crappiest equipment found in the gutter. A bad welder will destroy anything on the car with the best equipment money can buy.