Comparing Zs to Porsches?

[Arne]

I split this thread off from a different one, as the topic seems to have drifted.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Arne

[Mike]

And the tides turn... bobc, don't forget to come back and visit! I think there must be a tendency for Z owners to love either the Porsche 911 classic or the Jag E-type... something about the way they look. All too similar!

Bob, you still have the blue GTS?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Would love to see some pictures of the your 930 and Arnes 911.

When I bought my 240Z it was between the datsun and a 911, when I looked at how much parts were for 911's I slowly stepped back, but I would love an early 70's air cooled 911.

[Arne]

Would love to see some pictures of the your 930 and Arnes 911.

Arne's been slacking. No decent pictures yet, as it's always dirty from being driven frequently in the crappy wet weather we've been having.

When I bought my 240Z it was between the datsun and a 911, when I looked at how much parts were for 911's I slowly stepped back, but I would love an early 70's air cooled 911.

I can live with the Porsche parts surcharge. They have never been a high-volume car, so parts are bound to be more expensive. And while I would have preferred to get a '73 or older (pre-impact bumper, aka long-hoods), those have taken on a quasi-collectible status. Decent cars are getting quite expensive, so much so that I would not want to use one as a fairly regular driver. The best buys in 911's right now are the '74-86 cars. The later ones are fully galvanized, a big plus for ex-Z owners always paranoid about rust.

I think there must be a tendency for Z owners to love either the Porsche 911 classic or the Jag E-type...

The Porsches in particular have a very similar appeal to the early Zs. Here's an excerpt from my 240Z website (written in 2005) about how I selected a Z as a fun car - notice that the same reasons apply to the Porsches.

...itemize some things that make a car a fun project in my eyes.

• The car must be attractive... no, not necessarily, though it helps. But it can't be ugly, and its design should be clean and free of gimmicks.
  
• It should be fun to drive (in its restored form), and yet reasonably practical to use as daily transportation.
  
• It should have enough of a following that some parts are available, and should have a community of people striving to do the same thing I am. (Help and moral support, you know.)
  
• It should not be too common, a bit of rarity or eccentricity is good. It could have been common when it was new, though, as long as attrition has reduced the numbers so that you don't see one every day.
  
• It shouldn't be too similar to something I've already done.
  
• The initial cost must be affordable, because I know I'm going to end up spending a pile on it before I'm done.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Arne

[DougN]

I thought about picking up a 912 a few years back. I have space in my garage (with a lift), so I would not have had to sell my Z. In the end, after driving a few of them, I found that for a hardtop car, I preferred my Z, so in the end I decided to pass on Porsche ownership for now

[ollie]

I love the '87 - '89 G50 911 coupes, the 930's are a riot to drive too. Good luck with the sale and enjoy the 930...I browse rennlist as I'm interested in a 997 C4S at some point but the aircooled section seems to get a lot of traffic too.

[mally002]

Not to thread jack.....but Doug I picked up a 1968 912 last month (Love it). I liked it so much I decided to restore her back to original condition. Here's some shameless thread jacking photo's. It should be Ossi blue, which it will be soon.

Now, lets get back to Bob........

[Unkle]

I thought about picking up a 912 a few years back. I have space in my garage (with a lift), so I would not have had to sell my Z. In the end, after driving a few of them, I found that for a hardtop car, I preferred my Z, so in the end I decided to pass on Porsche ownership for now

Can you elaborate on your preferences ?

Is there big differences between the two cars ?

Just for interesting reading , not to flame the 911's .

Hmm, maybe start this in a new thread . Thanks for any replies !

[Arne]

I thought about picking up a 912 a few years back. I have space in my garage (with a lift), so I would not have had to sell my Z. In the end, after driving a few of them, I found that for a hardtop car, I preferred my Z, so in the end I decided to pass on Porsche ownership for now

I can definitely see preferring a Z to an early 912, or even an early (small displacement) 911. The small engine Porsches (even an MFI 'E' or 'S') would be a fussier drive than the Z. No low end torque, you have to keep them wound pretty tight. And the 912's don't even have the advantage of the better tires, suspension tuning and other equipment of the 911's, for the most part. Nice gentle picnic cars, but not really a Z replacement.

I love the '87 - '89 G50 911 coupes, the 930's are a riot to drive too.

I haven't driven a 930 in many years. Almost scary (but in a good way), as I recall.

The G50 cars are very nice, but there's a pretty good premium over the '84-86 cars with the 915 transmission, and I haven't found the 915 to be a problem to drive at all.

Not to thread jack.....but Doug I picked up a 1968 912 last month (Love it). I liked it so much I decided to restore her back to original condition. Here's some shameless thread jacking photo's. It should be Ossi blue, which it will be soon.

Randy, she's going to be awfully pretty in blue.

I thought about picking up a 912 a few years back. I have space in my garage (with a lift), so I would not have had to sell my Z. In the end, after driving a few of them, I found that for a hardtop car, I preferred my Z, so in the end I decided to pass on Porsche ownership for now

Can you elaborate on your preferences ?

Is there big differences between the two cars ?

Just for interesting reading , not to flame the 911's .

Hmm, maybe start this in a new thread . Thanks for any replies !

As I noted above, I don't think a 912 is a direct competitor for a nice 240Z. Different character of car. An early 911 - especially a 911E or 911S - is a better match, but the personality of the car is still different. I don't think a nice 240Z suffers much in comparison to an early 911, and the early 911 will cost a LOT more than a 240Z in equal condition. For $10k you can get a pretty nice 240Z, or a well worn and rusted early 911 that needs an expensive full restoration. You tell me which is the better buy.

Comparing the later 911's (like my '84 3.2 Liter) to an early Z isn't really fair. Way too much development and refinement over the years of production for the 911. I will admit that if I had the choice between my 240Z and my new-to-me Porsche - both cars gassed up and waiting in the garage - I'd take the Porsche. I just prefer driving it over the Z.

Which is not to say a 240Z is without good points. Even when compared to my 13-years newer 911, the Z wins some rounds. The shift linkage on the Z is more precise, even the dreaded monkey-motion shifter of my Type A tranny. And the heater controls make sense and are easy to understand in the Z. Not so in the Porsche - there are controls in three separate locations, the vent layout is odd, and the car has something like 5 or 6 blower fans for different HVAC functions. It takes careful reading of the manual while sitting in the car to learn how to make it all work.

In short, there is a place for both. The Z is a more exclusive car in most parts of the country, and (due to the historically low values compared to other "collectible" cars) far more affordable to a wider number of people. Is is attractive, fun to drive, and easy to maintain. Some of the Porsches are relatively affordable ('74-86 mostly), but more expensive to keep up. They are also nice driving cars, but different. More solid structurally, and great handling while still riding a bit better than a Z.

In short, I like them both. I only have room for one fun car at a time, and I prefer driving the Porsche. But if the 240Z hadn't sold, I wouldn't be suffering much.

[tlorber]

If the two are to be compared, you have to stop at the long hoods-74? Chrome bumper,no smog. I hate to say it but I think one of these will be in my future. I was recently reading about the boxer motor and they are apparently perfectly balanced due to the opposition of the pistons. They are also much more robustly built. Due to camming and compression, a more or less stock 2.7 kicks out around 210 hp and has big rotors all the away around. You can get a Z there with some modification and probably for fewer dollars. Overall the Z is less temperamental.

Also, if you haven't driven a rear motor car, you'd better be prepared. They are great for oversteer but you had better know that it is coming. 914/6's or Boxters are much more predictable, but don't look as nice.

911's were hand made up to a point. I was told that 912's were 911 bodies that did not pass inspection at the factory (sorry) and were then mated to 4 cylinder motors.

Datsun parts are cheap, cheap, cheap compared to those of Porsches, which has helped keep me in this world, 'cause I'm the same way. Also, in this part of the world, Z's are far less common.

Edited December 3, 2011 by tlorber

[ollie]

To me, the driving experience provided by a 911 is unlike any other. Rear engine, never lift in a corner, not many other cars offer this type of visceral driver's experience. The Z, for me at least, is a nostalgia car. My first car was a 72 240Z and now I'm eyes deep into a nut and bolt restoration on my "guaranteed rust free" (crock) 73. Since this Z will be around for a while, and I can't shake the want / need for a 911, it will need to be satisfied as a daily driver, hence the C4S. 911s are amazing cars, imho, as are Z's.

[240260280z]

Saw a 2CV leaving NYC last week. It sure leaned in the corners.

Got a friend with a 912. I have yet to drive a Porsche. I'll have to pester him. The nicest driving car for me has been another friends 300zx TT with HICAS... it is like a lear jet going through corners... swooosh.