Need New Oil Pump - Recommendations?

[Captain Obvious]

OK, that makes sense. If there is any debris in the oil pan, the pump eats anything that will fit through the pickup screen. From there, the filter removes the particles before they get to the bearings or head. You might luck out and repair it with just a new pump.

Exactly. That's The Plan. Fingers crossed and all that. :paranoid:

Given the shavings that you found in the pump, it might be worth the effort to drop the pan and clean the oil pickup screen to make sure there is nothing there that would harm your new pump or starve it for oil.

The only shavings I found in the pump were small slivers visible with an eye loupe (maybe 10X). There were no big chunks. What I found was small bits pressed into the gouges that were left in the rotor from whatever went through there. Think fillings in a tooth cavity.

The previous owner did a rebuild of the engine, and from all I can tell, he was very good at cleaning. I'm not sure yet about other aspects of his rebuild, but I'm confident that he cleaned everything very well. In other words, I bet he cleaned out the pan and screen already.

Hopefully this will be as simple as a new pump, and I think I'm going to change the oil and filter even though it's fresh. If that doesn't take care of it, I'm going to have to get into it way deeper.

[Bonzi Lon]

Gently take the old oil filter apart and take a look. A little messy, but it's like C.S.I.

Bonzi Lon

[Captain Obvious]

Gently take the old oil filter apart and take a look.

Now who in their right mind would do such a thing? Don't people have better things to spend time on? OK... So I just went out to the garage and snapped a few pics from my collection:

Purolator L10241:

AC Delco PF1127:

Note the separation at the seam where the original filter media was never glued properly at the factory:

Here's a closeup of the seam separation:

I used to be sold on AC Delco until I opened this one and discovered the open seam in the filter media. Then to make matters worse, they've since changed their internal construction from a metal support structure for the filter to a plastic cage. To each his own, but my current fave is Purolator.

Anyway, good idea Bonzi. It would be prudent to open the one off the 280 when I get to that point.

[Captain Obvious]

I had the camera out so I snapped some pics of my original oil pump:

Not sure what it ate, but it's obvious that something went through there that shouldn't have. :sick:

[Jeff G 78]

Yep, something went through there. Hopefully, it was pre-rebuild and there is no more debris hiding in the oil passages or screen. That pump is done.

[Lazeum]

Same thing happened to me in the past, pump was shot with debris going into it resulting in cam, rockers failure with crankshaft scoring (aside from cranksaft & pistons bearings being shot)

=> HBZ - Is my Oil pump dead?

I would check where those debris on your pump could come from: cam, rockers? but they would be magnetic or pistons, head for aluminum? Dirt from an oil change?

Jeff, it happened actually on your old car but it wasn't your engine. On my side, I ended up with a full rebuild with Melling M111 turbo pump, oil retrictor increased & dual lube on the cam (internal + spray bar)

[Jeff G 78]

Jeff, it happened actually on your old car but it wasn't your engine. ...

I'm free and clear on this one! It had several engine swaps after I sold it to Glenn before you got it.

How is the car now that you have owned it a while? I'm SO glad it turned out so nice. That's what I always dreamed it would look like, but I never had the money to finish it right. I was really close to buying it back from Glenn, but there were too many little things he did that I didn't like. I think you felt the same way and it is now perfect.

[Lazeum]

It's off topic a little but I'll answer anyway

Engine failure was not related to Glenn either

The car is doing good (soon to be back on the roads, target is spring), Glenn is following up btw; we exchanged emails no later than last week.

I've redone the full suspension setup since then (sanded/painted, poly bushings, brakes, brake lines, bolts, top mounts, bearings, etc.), steering also and this winter the whole engine.

(for the exprienced users, hook for the hoist is the wrong one, engine mounts are reversed - I've corrected it since then)

The only thing I've removed from before was the head (too much compression with ping & dieseling) & the wheels.

And if you'd like to follow the build, here's the link (it's in French but there're pictures)

I was really close to buying it back from Glenn, but there were too many little things he did that I didn't like. I think you felt the same way and it is now perfect.

I would most likely never get a Z if you would have bought it back since Z's in France are expensive cars, especially in this shape

Edited March 2, 2012 by Lazeum

[Jeff G 78]

Google translate to the rescue! The translation isn't perfect, but I can figure out most of the comments. Thanks for the link. The build looks great.

I need to email Glenn one of these days. I haven't chatted with him in a few years. Does he still have the same email address as when you bought the car?

BTW, sorry for the threadjack. We're done.

[Captain Obvious]

Lazeum, Thanks for the additional info. I read through your HBZ topic and I hope that I won't have to dig in as deep as you did. I've got a question though... I'm not sure I understand how the cam and rockers could end up taking damage from debris when the oil filter is supposed to catch that stuff.

I could maybe see something in the lower end picking up a chip right out of the oil pan since everything in there is swirling in unfiltered oil, but even if some debris passes through the pump, shouldn't the oil filter catch it before it ends up in any of the bearing journals?

Is it possible that your upper end issues weren't caused by debris, but were caused simply by low oil pressure that occurred when the pump stopped working?

Or am I just putting too much faith in the effectiveness of the filter? :disappoin

The chips I found were non-magnetic, but that doesn't mean they are the only ones that were involved. By that, I mean, the non-magnetic chips may be pieces of aluminum that were scraped off the inside off the oil pump body as something magnetic got pulverized and eventually passed through.

BTW, sorry for the threadjack. We're done.

No problem! It's nice to see current owners and previous owners happy with eachother.

[Lazeum]

The debris in my engine probably came from the cam & the rockers. They got damaged because of oil, this is why I've been able to find many debris in my oil pan.

We don't know however why: my oil pressure has always been good according to my oil pressure gage (stock unit, we know how reliable it could be ).

I wanted to do an oil change right after the weekend when the issue occurred (2 days too early) so it could also be a clogged oil filter that opened the bypass valve getting bad oil contaminating the rest of the engine but the oil was looking okay.

Other assumption is a worn out oil pump already in bad shape, that's something I've never checked before.

The Z however is a toy, it costs me a little bit of money but nothing too dramatic (3000€ in 2 years?) and I've learned a lot in the process: the only things I haven't touched in the Z is dashboard & the seats.

[Captain Obvious]

The debris in my engine probably came from the cam & the rockers.

So you're thinking that your problems started up top? Did you see my reconstructed spray bar on my 74? Way overengineered, but I'm very pleased with how well it turned out. Here's a thread about it:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?44750-Camshaft-Oil-Spray-Bar-Redesign-and-Rebuild

The oil pressure on that 74 is fantastic. Unfortunately, my 77 is the one that's currently giving me troubles and it's got the internally oiled cam setup.