280Z NEED "ignition relay", cannot find any

[restorerestore]

1978 280Z manual, 2 seat. I have had a continued problem with "systems on" AKA fuel pump runs, volt charge lite on, EFI relay goes on, when Key off. I first tested all EFI (under hood right side box) relays, all OK. Check alternator which was new-OK, seat belt warning lite ON, unplugged harness, checked key switch-OK. Removed key switch harness, still got same systems showing "ON". Would run down battery in few hours as fuel pump remained running. Note even with full charge volt meter reads low (4-6) but will creep up to 12 plus over time. Charge light remains on.

Finally printed blown up FMS electrical skew's, ONLY common to all this stuff, more so with ign switch unplugged from harness is the "Ignition relay" must be the issue, as only common to all according to FMS diagrams.

The PN on Part, 25230-89958 below that M$ 3S-561. Saw when others went after this part Nissan dealer said rolls to B5230-W0500. I cannot find one any place, even on net. Have called local Nissan and they kind of said ho-hum not in stock etc.

Does anyone know where to get one of these things and if so, what is the correct PN update? I suspect others have had same issues from what I have read, really hard to track down. is there ANY test for the part, as not yet opened it up to see if points burned etc. Suspect it is fault as for a while all was well if key shut off/on a few times, then went into 'come on 5 minutes after turning off mode, ran down battery if not checked. then finally failed as now simply runs. HELP please as ole yeller needs some road time.

[Zed Head]

Is it the one up by the fuse box? Pretty easy to open up, by bending the tabs back. It might look like mine did.

The early ZXs (79 for sure, maybe 80 and 81) used the same basic relay, except that they have one extra pin for a dedicated ground. I got my replacement from the wrecking yard. Harder to get to n the ZX, check the FSM for location.

PS - I think that there is a test procedure in the FSM for function of the relay. Worth looking. Involves applying power and checking for continuity. Yous probably has continuity with power off though so pretty easy to verify with an ohm-meter. Probably in Body Electrical.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Zed Head

[SteveJ]

If it's the one Zed Head is talking about, it wouldn't be difficult at all to build the relay out of a couple of standard relays. Depending upon the size of the housing, one could remove the coils & contacts from the standard relays and mount them in the relay. If the contacts are sticking, you could try taking apart the relay and use emery cloth on them. Anyway, relays are relatively easy to replace functionally when they are no longer available.

[restorerestore]

Cannot find a check method in my FMS, maybe missed it. Issue is how to check as suspect something is open, but not sure which opens and closes points. Would like to use or replace guts but not sure if any specific voltage-amps needed or sent for this thing to operate. If just any 12V coming going would work, that makes issue a lot easier, but do not want to screw up other items this thing seems to drive. Yes it is the one in center on "relay bracket". Really odd that no one makes them as others are available. Will open it up tonight, kind of holding off until I can find out if others might be available.

[SteveJ]

Cannot find a check method in my FMS, maybe missed it. Issue is how to check as suspect something is open, but not sure which opens and closes points. Would like to use or replace guts but not sure if any specific voltage-amps needed or sent for this thing to operate. If just any 12V coming going would work, that makes issue a lot easier, but do not want to screw up other items this thing seems to drive. Yes it is the one in center on "relay bracket". Really odd that no one makes them as others are available. Will open it up tonight, kind of holding off until I can find out if others might be available.

If you're worried about ratings, just go with a couple of 30A or 50A relays. Amazon has plenty of SPDT relays with these ratings. You just have to remove and discard the /b (normally closed) contact. The voltage is going to be 12 VDC. These cars didn't play around much with voltage signals.

In testing/inspecting the relay, it would probably be smart to do this with the cover off. In examining the wiring diagram I think I may have found an error in the drawing, as there are 6 wires in the plug going to the harness, but only 5 are used. My best guess is that the BW & LR wires energize the coils. The WR wires bring 12VDC to the wipers, and the LW & WB wires go out the rest of the harness. If you have trouble figuring out how to test it, send me a PM with your phone number, and I can walk you through it.

[restorerestore]

If you're worried about ratings, just go with a couple of 30A or 50A relays. Amazon has plenty of SPDT relays with these ratings. You just have to remove and discard the /b (normally closed) contact. The voltage is going to be 12 VDC. These cars didn't play around much with voltage signals.

In testing/inspecting the relay, it would probably be smart to do this with the cover off. In examining the wiring diagram I think I may have found an error in the drawing, as there are 6 wires in the plug going to the harness, but only 5 are used. My best guess is that the BW & LR wires energize the coils. The WR wires bring 12VDC to the wipers, and the LW & WB wires go out the rest of the harness. If you have trouble figuring out how to test it, send me a PM with your phone number, and I can walk you through it.

My dreawing from FMS for 1978 280Z shows 6 wires from IGN RELAY, you may have different year or are looking at the Tranistor IGN UNIT, a easy error to make. NIssan parts guy did same on first pass, then went to find IGN RELAY. Note in FMS for my Z IGN RELAY is in section on Bracket Reg, Body Electric etc, and covers wiring, location etc. NOTE have taken unit apart and noted (I did same for relays related to EFI under hood, this one above fuze box on "relay bracket") this relay has actually adjustment screws on the contract points at top of windings pole, none of others so equipped. No burn marks or pitting on points, but REALLY odd gap as appears about 1/16th inch on both. Not much left of points as probably down to 1/64th or less, but no indication of burning, shorts etc. So far cannot find what their gap is supposed to be, what amps etc. This is ONLY year that uses this PN and 79 on different. Will search again for testing but so far no luck.

[SteveJ]

No, I was looking at the correct area. If you note on the attached section from the wiring diagram. It does not show a wire from the relay going to the connector to meet with the LR wire. I believe that is in error.

[Zed Head]

I must have looked at the wiring diagram to figure out the operation. I know that I looked at the diagrams to figure out that the 1979 relay would work. I have a 1979 relay in my car now, a 1976 280Z. The part number difference is only for a totally separate blade/pin on the body, for extra grounding, everything else is identical. Yours grounds through the mounting screws.

SteveJ may be right on the wiring diagram but I do know that had both solenoids clicking on the bench before I installed it, using a spare 12V battery. You can figure out which wires are the solenoid activators because they will have about 60 ohms (if I recall correctly) resistance through the windings.

Good luck with it.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Zed Head

[restorerestore]

When I hook up battery, KEY OFF, also with Key harness unplugged at key, following things happen, EFI relays under hood active, fuel pump starts, no charge lite on and volts show 4-6 with engine off, fully charged battery. seat belt like on, in general acts same as if key turned on but not at start. This thing started as intermittent, fixed by turning key on/off a few times, then went full time and would drain battery overnight if left hooked up. Sounds were at EFI relays under box, right side under hood. Thought maybe they were issue, but checked all out and all OK, replaced ALT as sometime this can cause issue, no change. ONLY way to shut off no charge lite is to remove two prong from ALT. NOTE when power turned on the Ign Relay made no noise, none, It seems only common point to all the problems as seem stuck in some sort of "Ign On" position but gaps are open (amazingly to what appears nearly 1/16th inch or so, not burned. They, so far are ONLY points that are fully adjustable via set screw if I knew what they should be set at. I may try to power up the unit and test from there, I would like to test the harness plugin but it is in nearly impossible spot, but if twist and turn enough might be possible. Note it seems to work with power on from ign key makes circuit and opens others. Not sure if the is points open or closed, would suspect closed, but very large gap is kind of strange. A bit baffled by this one, more so as simply cannot find any for sale for 1978 and this PN seems neither substituted nor in stock anyplace. A bit odd as ONLY used on 78, so doubt others would work and could further screw up electronics? Going back, suspect this unit is bad, somewhere as only one that ties in directly with old key on off fix and impacts other items now going on. It seems the LR out of key swth looks like a ground to ign swtch, and LR from fuse box runs to fuseible link and condenser on alt. That LR from Key is odd, you are right about error there or is it? Will look at closer at Ign Relay uses on FMS as they show lots, but wonder about testing the thing now? Sure wish one was for sale.

[Zed Head]

It's available at Courtesy Parts. www.courtesyparts.com

Edited April 22, 2012 by Zed Head

[restorerestore]

THANKS MUCH, somehow missed them, nice site as wife has 93 240SX convert that will be back on road as soon as auto trans either repaired or replaced, her "Baby" as she loves it, gets great MPG and rolls out quite well.

Now to the Ign Relay, ordered one and it seems both the 25230-89958 and B5230-W0500 same part as exactly same price. Did not do parts check on each yet. Went over the ign swtch and Ign relay and even the no charge, lite. Seems that the wiring D is screwed up, and now really wonder if anything else is wrong. Will try and ID prongs to do some tests with my unit, but ordered another one anyway. I just cannot see anything else that could be causing the issue with all the other items going down. It seems in the 78 the ign relay just central point for most items power ups. Any ideas as if issue could be from other then Ign Relay, as so far that is only spot I can find that ties them all in together., Sure wish I knew what gap was supposed to be on those things as really seem huge right now, more so compared to others in EFI/Pump etc. This sure is a mystery part. Again THANKS so much for source, somehow missed it, very much appreciated. Wife now after me for new auto trans for her beloved 240Z, note she just loves the newer GT R's, but we have never seen or driven one and can only guess at ins rates there

[SteveJ]

When I hook up battery, KEY OFF, also with Key harness unplugged at key, following things happen, EFI relays under hood active, fuel pump starts, no charge lite on and volts show 4-6 with engine off, fully charged battery. seat belt like on, in general acts same as if key turned on but not at start. This thing started as intermittent, fixed by turning key on/off a few times, then went full time and would drain battery overnight if left hooked up. Sounds were at EFI relays under box, right side under hood. Thought maybe they were issue, but checked all out and all OK, replaced ALT as sometime this can cause issue, no change. ONLY way to shut off no charge lite is to remove two prong from ALT. NOTE when power turned on the Ign Relay made no noise, none, It seems only common point to all the problems as seem stuck in some sort of "Ign On" position but gaps are open (amazingly to what appears nearly 1/16th inch or so, not burned. They, so far are ONLY points that are fully adjustable via set screw if I knew what they should be set at. I may try to power up the unit and test from there, I would like to test the harness plugin but it is in nearly impossible spot, but if twist and turn enough might be possible. Note it seems to work with power on from ign key makes circuit and opens others. Not sure if the is points open or closed, would suspect closed, but very large gap is kind of strange. A bit baffled by this one, more so as simply cannot find any for sale for 1978 and this PN seems neither substituted nor in stock anyplace. A bit odd as ONLY used on 78, so doubt others would work and could further screw up electronics? Going back, suspect this unit is bad, somewhere as only one that ties in directly with old key on off fix and impacts other items now going on. It seems the LR out of key swth looks like a ground to ign swtch, and LR from fuse box runs to fuseible link and condenser on alt. That LR from Key is odd, you are right about error there or is it? Will look at closer at Ign Relay uses on FMS as they show lots, but wonder about testing the thing now? Sure wish one was for sale.

Are you sure the switch on the back of the ignition switch isn't out of alignment/going bad? Rockauto has them.