Insurance, 280Z and value

[PHSHARKEY]

I have a 1977 2+2, it was stolen and recovered with only minor damage. The insurance adjuster and I began a drawn out duiscussion of what the car was worth and should it be totaled. A first blush he said $1,800. After I blasted that we moved on to more logical concepts! Just out of curiosity (and it may help me, 'cause we're not done yet), what do you think it's worth?

166K miles. NO RUST! A great deal of work has been done on it including, but not limited to:

1) Replacement of all body seals with original stock material, not reproductions. These materials alone cost over $3K without labor.

2) Complete restoration of the carpeting at a cost of about $500.

3) Complete restoration of both doors, windshield, rubber, louvers, drain holes, cowl padding, etc. at a cost of $2K.

4) Replacement of all chassis rubber bushings with original stock material, not reproductions.

5) Major engine work was done about 40K miles ago, including: r/r manifolds and cylinder head, oil pan, rings, bearings; hone cylinders, valve grind, replace bypass hose, replace pickup coil and door locks, etc. at a cost of almost $2K.

There are four items that are lacking to reach "perfect" condition:

1) Dash – Cracks.

2) Seat covers – Driver's side seat bottom torn about 4".

3) Door liners, chrome stripping wearing off.

5) Paint – clearcoat peeing on sharp edges.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Phil Sharkey

[peterc]

Can't help you with a value (other than WAY more than $1,800 . However, in my neck of the woods, when dealing with 'older' cars insurance companies will always lowball you unless you've had the car professionally appraised.

Appraisers tend to be quite reasonable (read generous) when valuing your precious metal and the insurance companies (around here anyway) will accept their evaluations at face value.

However, you can expect an increase in insurance costs as the car is worth more.

Peter

[bonniec75209]

My youngest son wrecked his beloved 280 and the insurance company paid him 4,000. (1st offer)

[EScanlon]

This is probably one of the least discussed topics.

Just adding your Z to your standard Automobile Insurance Policy will NOT, repeat NOT, insure for any of the following:

a) TRUE repair costs.

TRUE value.

c) APPRECIATION due to restoration OR collectability.

Read the fine print, and you will more than likely discover a phrase that says "Fair Market Value" or "Average Worth". These are insurance double-speak for "What we decide to give you."

You MUST contract with the insurance company to either insure at an agreed upon value, or the value assigned to the car by a car appraiser.

Otherwise.......you will get insurance based on the insurance companies tables. That means, tables prepared BY the insurance companies FOR use by the insurance companies in paying out claims.

Trust me, in the insurance business, paying OUT is to be avoided or minimized at all costs. Yes, they have to pay out, but how much they pay out is where thousands of people have been very VERY rudely awakened.

There are insurance companies out there that specialize in collector cars. Unfortunately some of these companies also impose limits, restrictions and other conditions before they'll accept your vehicle insurance policy.

The alternative is to arse-U-ME that your insurance company will do the ~right~ thing. Rots-A-Ruck! Their main intent in business is to maximize the premiums while minimizing the benefit payout. They will give you what their books say is "Fair Market Value" which is based on data that will almost definitely NOT include your gem.

I won't mention specific insurance companies, I'll leave that to other folks. But the bottom line here is to check your contract, talk to your agent and get it in writing what and how much your current policy is actually protecting you.

If you find that it isn't what you want, then find another company FIRST, before you cancel your old policy. This is critical, especially if you have any kind of a bad driving record, or points on your license. NEVER ASSUME THAT INSURANCE IS A PHONE CALL AWAY. Get the policy, or at least some sort of written confirmation that you are covered before you cancel your old policy. You can always put the refund into your checking account.

2¢

[PHSHARKEY]

I'm not yet unhappy with my insurance (AAA), but we'll see what happens! I suggested that the car was worth about $7,500 and they seem to be accepting that figure, at least as far as not totaling it out yet and they have paid for over $1,500 in exploratory surgery to determine if anything is wrong with the engine. THey've also rented me the most boring ride I've ever had for almost a month now. I'll ket you know what happens.

[ZmeFly]

when my 72 was hit the adjuster had come out and he was like WOW a 240Z

i was surprised he knew what i had.

well to make a long story short his first car was a datsun 2000 convertible coupe while he attended college then his second car was a 240Z!!

hehe what luck. as we talked further, he is now in the process of restoring a austin healey BNZ 3000.

so it depends on if the person you are dealin with knows and respects cars.

anyway i ended up with the prices from MSA for my fender, hood, front air damn, new tie rod ends, new tire, alignment, paint and labor, i recieved a check for 1975 dollars.

[EScanlon]

I'm also with AAA (actually ACIA), and I have no complaints as yet either. However, I DID specify a value for my car based on what I purchased it for, and an additional value based on the work that I was planning to put into it. I have it on the policy and on a letter signed by my agent, with a provision that states that this is an ongoing condition upon renewal.

Now that that work has been completed, I need to reevaluate that value, and at this point in time it may be that the ~new~ value is not acceptable to AAA.

My point wasn't that your insurance co. is out to cheat you, but rather that way too many times you find out AFTER the fact and not BEFORE. Sometimes a simple phone call is all it takes to discover whether or not your insurance company considers your 30 year old pristine 240Z an outstanding example of a collector car ~ OR ~ a rusty old beater.

Forewarned is forearmed!

2¢

[PHSHARKEY]

Yes, I'm with AAA (not really it's CSAA<G>). When I insured the car I had that discussion with the agent, we'll see if I needed to get it on paper. I specifically asked how price evaluations were made and I was told that it was done by documenting sales of similar vehicles of the same year and model or one year younger.

Well ... that's all well and good. But I suspect that you all know just how many 1977 or 1978 280z 2+2s are on the market at the moment. With a half day's effort I was able to find ten, with a price range that ran from a low of $1.5k to a high of $10k, with an average of $3.5k and a median value of $5K.

There's one there that is much like mine and priced at $8K. But using a sample of ten with a difference of median and mean that is 15% of the range offends the Statistition in me

The basic issues I think will be easy to solve ... the thieves sucked a valve (exhaust cylinder #1) so the head is off and being fixed. (Gee ... anyone ever heard of mistreating an engine and shooting the oil out the dipstick?). There is some damage to the driver's side lock and door. They removed the glove box (the CD Changer was in there), the central trim plate and the three gauges. But then we start with the other stuff, Stereo with CD Changer and MP3 Player, almost $1,000 worth of prime sheep (front, rear and deck), damage to the right rear interior plastic quarter panel, fog lights gone, 1976 owner's manual and service record book all primo and in their cute little dealer's plastic slipcover, map light, bra, car cover, sun shield, floor mats, etc. It adds up. I figure about $5K (not counting personal property) before we start to deal with the actual damage to the car.

I'll keep you posted.

[Datzun76]

I have been trying to get mine insured but most insurance companies refuse to give me full coverage and almost all of them will not even give me the state required (Florida) minimum coverage.

I looked mine up on NADA since KBB does not offer the value of cars that old. According to them my 280z is worth 3,000 in good condition and $5,000 in excellent condition. Look your car up in NADA and see what the value is. Alot of insurance companies will go by blue book values. A friend of mine recently wrecked her car and her insurance company agreed to pay her the average price that other owners were selling their cars for. Exact same year and model. She wound up getting another $700 out of them.