Got new tires and now the front end won't align!!

[Hinge Rubber Man]

Oh, and by the way, with the old tires the steering wheel had just a slight (hardly noticable) shake to it. I would have driven it away from the tire shop with that little bit of shake and been happy.

It seems the car has had suspension and or steering problems even before you bought it, the telling clue is in your quote above and the new tires have amplified the "shake" due to the extra frictional forces exerted by the new deeper and softer treads as opposed to the harder and worn treads of the older tires

We normally think that new tires are a fix, but often they will bring out the worst in suspensions and steering if indeed there is any play or misalignment in the assemblies, not to mention distortion in the body shell from years of twisting and pitching. A tweak from factory wheel alignment specs may be needed to get things right, this is after a new professional alignment, doing the best they can, and driving the car for some time to check handling and for any abnormal tire wear

The increased frictional forces from the new tires can make any wear or play in steering parts even worse in a shorter time, try removing some shims from the pinion in the rack and pinion unit then fit new wheel bearings, not just adjust the old ones, they may have worn oval. Also, the brakes discs should not run out any more than 0.006" (6 thou) when checked on the car, 0-4 thou is much more acceptable. Loose and worn wheel bearings plus excessive disc run out, in concert, can cause major wheel shimmy, albeit under braking

To correct the wheel wobble problem, you really need to trace back from the wheels all the way to the steering wheel eliminating play where necessary, even to the point of checking the steering column bearing just below the steering wheel. Firm up everything so that the new tires can't say "hey you're not giving us a chance here"

Firmness of suspension/steering, tweaking the wheel alignment and lastly, a good wheel balance, will more than likely fix the "wobble" problem

Pete

[mgood]

Have you checked the wheel bearings. 35 years ago I hit a pothole with the passenger front tire and blew it out. It took about 6mo for the steering wheel to wobble at around 50 mph.

I took it to the dealer at least 4 times and they eventually replaced the whole strut, did not fix it. They said the the wheel (Appliance) could be the cause. I eventually tracked it down took about 2 years. It was the outer race on the outer bearing that had started to wear and was not a press fit any longer. there was about a 1/16 inch of play. You could not feel it with the car off or wheel the ground when you pushed on the tire.

I fixed that and that did fix some of the problem, the rest of the problem was that that wheel was out of round ever so slightly and when I put that wheel on the back of the car the shimmy vanished. It only took 30 years to fix it.

[ZCurves]

Assuming that the front-end is nice and tight, that the bearings and struts are good. I would take the wheels to a different tire shop and inspect both the tire and wheel for being wonky or egg shaped. From what you have described, it sounds like a balancing issue, so you have to look closely at wonky tires AND the wheels. Over time, old wheels tend to become egg shaped or develop a lateral pitch - this is where I think your problem is....

With some tires, tire shops will try to compensate for bad balance by throwing a bunch of weights on the rim or shifting the tire around on the rim to get better geometry and therefore a better balance. The problem is that this is a temporary solution on a cheap or bad tire/wonky rim setup. A few thousand miles later you'll be right back where you started.

[ms260z]

Thanks for all the input folks. Apparently one of the rims was badly out of balance. He put it on the rear and balanced it and it drives pretty good so far. I am still going to go thru all the front end, bearings, ball joints, etc for peace of mind.

Back on the road for now............................

[olzed]

spell

I

.

I recommend if all is tight, paying for some better tires. Buy some Hankooks, or even some Falkens, they are very reasonably priced. But off brand tires are never a good choice.

I had a bad experience with brand new FALKEN tires fitted to my 240. I noticed a different feel with the car as though the wheels were oval.

The shop that sold. fitted and balanced them would not accept there was a problem, and basically told me to 'go away.' Which I did and have never been back there.

I went to a different shop for a second opinion. They tried to get them running true on my new alloy rims, but it turned out the tires were oval.

Went to another shop and got a set of Toyo's. I offered the Falkens to them thinking I may get a few bucks, but they didn't want them even for free.

Said they were like cheap truck tires.

FWIW

Brian.

[Hinge Rubber Man]

"Went to another shop and got a set of Toyo's."

Well I hope for your sake olzed that your Toyo's don't fly apart on ya, are they still on your car? The first set I ever bought, one of them separated the tread from the steel belt while I was passing a slow car on the highway, like a thrashing machine it was, flayed against the inner guard then the outer guard (fender?), very messy!

On investigation, the steel belt was too wide allowing only a very narrow strip of rubber each side, those narrow strips couldn't handle even normal driving and let go. New tires, had barely 500 miles clicked up when one divorced it's tread from casing. Obviously "dumped" rejects from Asia!

[olzed]

I've had the Toyos for around 8 years now. Done about 20,000 miles. They are fine.

Edited July 13, 2012 by olzed

[Hinge Rubber Man]

I've had the Toyos for around 8 years now. Done about 20,000 miles. They are fine.

No probs olzed, I believe the Govt here cracked down on ill designed new tires, NZ probably followed suit. My tire started making a faint "clicking" sound weeks before I had to get a quote from the panel beaters. I took it for granted that a brand new tire wouldn't do that and thought it could be a stone stuck in the tread hitting the road surface every revolution

The habit I'm into now is to view a diagram of the cross-section of the tires I'm buying, if it's at all possible. Another good idea is get hold of a worn tire the same as the ones you're buying and cut it through cross wise with a 10" angle grinder, then check it for any design defects. Most of us may not be interested in cutting up old tires but the steel belt should have at least 3/4" or more distance between the outer edges of the steel belt to the outside edges of the tread....and the steel belt needs to be sunk well below the bottom of the tread grooves, not just a 1/32". For the advanced amateur investigator, they would submit a sample piece of the belt wire to be analyzed at a metallurgy business or lab to check for regulation brittleness (on the tread that parted ways on my tire, every wire had broken right through, the mangled tread, after retrieving it from the road, was one long length, not a circle any more, just saying). Last but not least, check the rated loading of the tires you're buying, it's usually embossed on the sidewall along with all the other info, example: Max 560 Kg or maybe 1,234 US Pounds. Multiply by four then compare the total with the weight of the car plus passengers. It must be equal to or more. Probably doesn't happen often with everyday cars but cops are obliged to check tire loadings if they have suspicions, especially on commercial vehicles

If tires are under rated for the job they're doing, what can happen is the belt wires break individually after a while, at different times and they work their way up through the rubber and stick out like spikes...good for snow , but if a motorist ever notices a weird shiny wire protruding up through the tread, there's two things to do, 1) try to pull it out with a pair of pliers, 2) if it won't budge, get the tire off the vehicle in a flash

Pete

[240260280z]

This adjustment sometimes helps the way a Z "feels".

http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/steering/racktension/