Bad noise comming from valve cover.

[grantf]

Boy if it was a mid 80's Buick I would say power steering pump but.... Sorry man don't mean to make light of your situation but you have to admit it sounds pretty close to that. On a serious note I would have the alternator bench tested. If you have an Auto Zone there, they don't charge. If it was metal on metal (internal engine) it would have a higher pitch sound, from what I have experienced.

No worries, Sometimes a sense of humor in needed more often around these parts.

I removed the one and only belt, started the car (only ran for 4 sec tops). The noise is still there. I am ruling out the alternator.

I used a long stick as a stethoscope. I know it's not accurate but the sound is just as loud at the rear of the valve cover as the front. I tried to get the stick as close to the front cover without hitting the belt or fan and it was quite a bit quieter, but I am not thinking this meens much as the stick to the alternator was really loud.

I am going to remove the valve cover and look at the oiling to see what I can find.

[5thhorsemann]

Does it get louder when yoy open the oil fill cap?

[grantf]

Does it get louder when yoy open the oil fill cap?

That one I have not tried, but my car will not run with the oil cap removed. Way to much of a vacuum leak there.

I just removed the valve cover and turned the motor with my remote starter. I can see oil exiting the lobes and some dripping from the oil bar. I am ruling out the spray bar as a culprit.

I also felt the tension on the chain. I can find no slack at all on ether side. It is really tight. Here are some photos of the chain and guides:

Sorry about the bad photography and I am sure the third photo is of little value, I took it mostly to see down inside further.

Edited July 16, 2012 by grantf

[5thhorsemann]

You pulled the plugs, I presume to get the most RPM out of the starter, and you can't hear any noise from the timing chain, correct?

Oil should be pumping out of the oil spray bar at all 12 lobes, is it?

It dosn't sound like any valve train noise I have ever come across, sounds like the chain is draging on the tensioner or the guides. Can you see any marks or wear on the outter edge of the chain? Are there any marks on the inside of the valve cover, maby worth a look?

Could it be the starter gear isn't disengaging?

Check the rotor in the cap to make sure it isn't slapping on the posts, and check that the timing tab isn't hitting the crank pully.

You have eliminated the water pump, alternator, clutch fan and the belt.

I'm reaching a bit, but I listened to your video a dozen and can't think of too many culprits that would produce that noise.

Edited July 16, 2012 by 5thhorsemann

[olzed]

In you first picture, although it is a little hard to tell, It looks to me like the chain guide has lost it's guide surface and the chain is running on metal.

[siteunseen]

That's some damn good eyes olzed. It does look thin or non existent. Where would it be? In the oil pan like hardway's was.

[d240zx2]

I agree with olzed. The "plastic" looks quite thin, if it's there at all.

[Zed Head]

olzed makes a good point. I wonder if a long bolt was used on the front thermostat housing hole, pushing the guide in to the chain. In it's normal/proper position the straight guide, even with its plastic, doesn't touch the chain, except for the odd deceleration event when the slack might pile up in one spot. At least the ones I've seen.

Looks like your guide, sans plastic, is riding the chain all the time. I second (third?) the metal on metal making the noise.

[rcb280z]

Grant, what did you disassemble (from the head) if anything when you removed the head? Or was the head removal just strickly for the gasket refresh?

[siteunseen]

Here's Hardway's adventure http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/thread46588.html

[grantf]

olzed makes a good point. I wonder if a long bolt was used on the front thermostat housing hole, pushing the guide in to the chain. In it's normal/proper position the straight guide, even with its plastic, doesn't touch the chain, except for the odd deceleration event when the slack might pile up in one spot. At least the ones I've seen.

Looks like your guide, sans plastic, is riding the chain all the time. I second (third?) the metal on metal making the noise.

I am now intrigued. Yes there is some plastic left on both guides, but worn way down. I guess I do not understand how any of the thermostat bolts could produce this situation. Hmmm. I think we are finding something. More exploration tomorrow.

yes there were oil marks that looked like the chain guides in oil thread but I cleaned them off from the inside of the valve cover and found no evidence of the chain rubbing it. as a matter of fact I do not think that was the case in that thread, I think it is a common oil varnishing.

Grant, what did you disassemble (from the head) if anything when you removed the head? Or was the head removal just strickly for the gasket refresh?

As stated above this condition existed before I did any work replacing the head. The only work on the head was cleaning the mating surfaces, cams, and oiling it before running. but the chain looks way close to the guide. hmmmm

Edited July 17, 2012 by grantf

[grantf]

So I am going to remove the front cover. :ogre:

Today put the front up on ramps, drained the coolant (AGAIN!), removed the AFM, air cleaner, top and bottom shroud, skid plate, radiator and fan. So is my next step to put the engine at TDC? I have never removed the dizzy or oil pump before.