What makes a Z a Z? What modifacations go too far to be called a Z?

[MotoManMike]

I posted on here awhile ago about selling my car or swapping my car's engine set and this whole reason of this topic played heavily on why I chose to do a motor swap in it (the topic not this poll, this was a few months ago). I have 2 z's, one fairly original, i have the numbers matching L24 being prepped to rebuild. It currently is running an L24 with 72 SU's, it will stay with an L24 and I will eventually do a total resto but it will never be an original car, it has earlier carbs, a different radiator and exhaust and wheels but its usable upgrades to the original Z in my opinion as I drive this thing at least 15k miles a year. My other 240Z was bone stock other than a reman L28 engine when I bought it. So it was already "tainted" for lack of a better term. In addition, it has at some point in its life had a bump in the right rear quarter and has been repaired. Repaired well but again "tainted" I applaud the guys who go through the painstaking process of cleaning every little fastener, bracket or part, sourcing genuine NOS parts. Eventhough the car might not be as fast as a modified car, a factory restored car is in a class of its own. The attention to detail those guys go to is unreal and I wish I had their patience. They are the true examples of dedication to the original, that in my opinion is paying honor. Working on cars as a hobby and at work, I really do have a great comprehension of how much time, organization and sweat labor goes into producing a show stopper stock Z, everyone knows it takes money but there is alot more to the picture then just money, not everyone can build a car or take the time to source the parts they need to finish their project. Again my hats off to you guys who do factory nut bolt restorations. I've got plenty to keep you busy if you get bored Honoring a Z is honoring how it was built originally, rolling off the boat. There is some grey area I feel with parts interchanges from the series of Z cars but at least its family .

[psdenno]

As Gary pointed out, the votes tell the story. There's no manipulation of the data. Certainly, the 60 members who voted have made it clear that THEY feel engine changes and exterior modifications change the nature and intent of the Z.

Of course, coming to a clear conclusion based on the results of 60 voting members out of a stated club membership of 26,634 is a bit like the tail wagging the dog.

In most cases, I find it easier to tolerate, or even enjoy, a modified Z than to tolerate an out of control Z owner who goes on and on about the perceived wonderfulness of his or her car, how much it cost, and why it's better than the original. That behavior tends to place one on the fast track to being viewed as an unlikeable twit.

Dennis

[hls30.com]

I've mew you only a few times, and it seems you'd like just about any reason to converse over a 'beverage.'

That kind of talk will get you one in a hurry!

[Gary in NJ]

Gary ....what is the agreed insurance value on your car?..............mine is 50.000,00 US $

Like P.T. Barnum said; "there's a sucker born every minute".

I will not get into a pissing contest with you about perceived value. I'm disgusted that you went there. I find that comment completely out of character with the members of this forum & club.

You act as if your Z swings between your legs. Keep playing with it, child.

[hls30.com]

Choosing the Z to create a beautiful derivative work doesn't honor the original? Spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours doesn't honor the vehicle specifically chosen for the purpose when the "artist" could have chosen any other vehicle to commit their precious time and treasure to?

Steve

Take a step back, can I honor a woman by cutting her up and adding silicone-no that's called changing to suit-arguably making her better absolutely making her different. Honoring means embracing something as it is, not changing it.

To use your example, would an artist hinor the Mona Lisa by put his girlfriendss face on it? No he would paint a copy and do that-so as not to dishonor the Mona Lisa. A derivative work is not the same as the original work-in a derivative you are repurposing something old to make something new that shows off the skill of the latest artist not something to highlight the work of the original one. An artist in awe stands and does not touch what he is in awe of.

Edited August 11, 2012 by hls30.com

[hls30.com]

Gary ....what is the agreed insurance value on your car?..............mine is 50.000,00 US $

Agreed upon insurance is something between you and your insurance company-if the car is totaled-your insurance company will make good on it-not necessarily the insurance company of the at fault party, meaning that stated value is only an indication of what you are willing to pay for insurance to cover replacing the car, not what a perspective buyer would pay for the car-as I recall in another thread, you were pointed out as thinking you paid too much for the car...probably a good bit less than the coverage of your stated value insurance-meaning you knew that was trash before you typed it.

I have stated value on mint as well-to cover the cost of replacement, not the value of an open market sale-ask your insurance agent, that is exactly what he will tell you that replacement cost is exactly what stated value insurance is for. If you still are not convinced. read your policy they will not pay you the difference between what you can sell it undamaged for and what you have it insured for.

Edited August 11, 2012 by hls30.com

[TomoHawk]

gary,

You can't add the percentages of the votes to get any kind of a total. If you add all the percentages, you get over 200%! You can add the number of votes in the desired groups, and compare it to the total (after recalculating the percentage.)

I think that is what you intended o do.

As for the Mona Lisa- You can honor it by putting it in a fancy room with some color-correct lighting, having a few musicians play period music, and some good friends and food, for example.

Edited August 11, 2012 by TomoHawk

[EScanlon]

An Agreed Value insurance policy is only a contract between you and the insurance company whereby the insurance company will generally cover you for the amount you request without further documentation as long as you continue to pay the premiums they quote.

You could insure a turd for a million dollars and if the insurance company determines the risk involved as being acceptable, they'll issue the policy, you pay the premiums and VOILA you have a "million dollar turd".

http://www.hagerty.com/classic-car-articles-resources/Ask-Hagerty-Questions/Ask-Hagerty/Insuring/QA/Whats-the-difference-between-Agreed-Value-and-Stated-Value-coverage

FYI

E

[EScanlon]

Folks:

Let's keep it civil.

While a certain amount of vitriolic riposting is common in these discussions let's keep away from direct insults and attacks.

References to ignore lists are requests to have the post deleted as it's equivalent to telling the individual that they're not allowed to interject or participate.

Requests to "prove" something or quoting disdain or arrogance by other members also constitutes the beginnings of a flame war. Flame wars are not allowed.

For whatever it's worth, this discussion has been very refreshing and interesting... at worst, people can agree to disagree.

FWIW

E

[72 OJ]

psdenno.................please show the quote in where I stated that my Z is better than the original................as far as the twit comment , seems that I am in good company here

[TomoHawk]

Gary ....what is the agreed insurance value on your car?..............mine is 50.000,00 US $

In the U.S.A., this is read as fifty dollars, and 000,000 cents.

[MotoManMike]

Its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. My two Z's. Money couldn't get them from me, they are my little joy toys. One for me, one for my lady . I'm glad you stepped in and said something EScanlon, these forums are for good information and fun, I quit using this site when I first got my Z car because I got flamed for being a noob to Z cars. I've built engines all my life but heaven forbid i didn't know what was wrong with my carbs. If I want to see people being nasty to eachother i'll turn on the tv or go out in public. This was probably one of my most enjoyable posts i've been a part of on here because I think it taps into the feelings us Z car owners cherish. That feeling of having a very well made car, very rare car, very cult culture kind of car, that almost anyone could appreciate and often does when i take it out. So you mucked up the motor or the body, or swapped this or that, look on the bright side, you love a Z car, we have a lot more in common than someone who has a primer gray camero on blocks swearing it'll be the greatest some day