Practicality of daily driving a z (and safety)

[fuzze]

morning , some very interesting comments and some very valid points from everyone . Going to toot my own horn so to speak , I just turned 49 yr s old and I have had a spotless drivers abstract since I have been 18 . The one collision '' note it wasn't a accident '' I had is when I trusted my passenger to look for me to see if the intersection was clear and we got tee boned on the passenger side . My fault for trusting a passenger to do my thinking . The point is that driving is a privilege and not a right and the key to keeping that in focus it drive with absolute patience . In our family we own 5 vehicles and my daily driver is a 87 suzuki samurai . It doesn't go fast as it only has 60 hp although in my line of work I drive on a daily basis 13 speed , 18 speed dump trucks and a variety of loaders and heavy equipment on the road year round plowing snow and otherwise . I have the safest driving record in the whole corporation and have just recently taught two twenty somethings to pass their commercial drivers licence . While teaching these two young me my entire emphasis was on patience and observation of what was going on around them .My mantra was '' self preservation '' and going home at night so you can enjoy the money you have just earned . My dad who drove 45 years in a semi trailer with a spotless record to retirement taught me these virtues at a very young age and I am thankful to this very day . Almost any car can be a safe DD if you want to be a safe driver yourself . keep a safe distance and be aware always and hopefully you can pass on good skills to someone else .

OK , off my soapbox and everyone enjoy your day

Chris

[5thhorsemann]

morning , some very interesting comments and some very valid points from everyone . Going to toot my own horn so to speak , I just turned 49 yr s old and I have had a spotless drivers abstract since I have been 18 . The one collision '' note it wasn't a accident '' I had is when I trusted my passenger to look for me to see if the intersection was clear and we got tee boned on the passenger side . My fault for trusting a passenger to do my thinking . The point is that driving is a privilege and not a right and the key to keeping that in focus it drive with absolute patience . In our family we own 5 vehicles and my daily driver is a 87 suzuki samurai . It doesn't go fast as it only has 60 hp although in my line of work I drive on a daily basis 13 speed , 18 speed dump trucks and a variety of loaders and heavy equipment on the road year round plowing snow and otherwise . I have the safest driving record in the whole corporation and have just recently taught two twenty somethings to pass their commercial drivers licence . While teaching these two young me my entire emphasis was on patience and observation of what was going on around them .My mantra was '' self preservation '' and going home at night so you can enjoy the money you have just earned . My dad who drove 45 years in a semi trailer with a spotless record to retirement taught me these virtues at a very young age and I am thankful to this very day . Almost any car can be a safe DD if you want to be a safe driver yourself . keep a safe distance and be aware always and hopefully you can pass on good skills to someone else .

OK , off my soapbox and everyone enjoy your day

Chris

If you ever want to sell your Z PM me, sounds like it has never been driven.

[Stanley]

One more lil comment: yes I street race, and do WOT test runs with a stop watch, but only when it's safe (divided road, 3 or 4 lanes ahead with no cars and no side streets for 1/8 mile or more), never when it would endanger or frighten another driver.

Watch the other cars but also yourself, if you're tired or had a beer don't fiddle with the radio or look for a map. Red light runners and drunk drivers can happen any time, any place.

[John Coffey]

I teach people how to race cars for SCCA, Speedventures, and NASA. I know the value of driving skills, awareness, and experience. But there is always the unexpected and making sure the car is best prepared for an unexpected impact is a very smart thing to do. As a driver, if you're so full of yourself to think that you can avoid all accidents due to your superior skills, abilities, and situational awareness - you are a fool. You are exactly the kind of person that gets asked to leave race driver training because you're a danger to others on the track. Why do we bother to put roll cages and fire systems in race cars if superior skill makes them unnecessary? Why indeed...

[EScanlon]

John's point is spot on.

If there were a way of perfecting the skill necessary to be a Safe Driver, you would still be operating in a field of other drivers many of whom may not be equally safe!

In different words, and not trying to be patronizing, accepting your statement that your driving experience and knowledge sets you well above the median level of experience and knowledge; How can you protect yourself from the bad driver that clips YOU, through no fault of your own?

At that point the car needs to be and should be safe.

The Z is only as safe as the collision it can avoid. Sadly, it does not take much before you've crunched a Z well enough that it's safety is compromised.

Internal reinforcements in the doors are more for sheet metal support than they are for use as an impact panel.

Ever seen a Z that has had a pick-up hit it from behind? And the one I saw wasn't even on lifts, as they tend to be around here in the Pac NW.

(Granted, some of the P/U's I've seen are high enough that you'd have the tires doing the damage and not the chassis or body of the truck.)

My point is simple: for a daily driver... as much as I love my Z or my Roadster, I'll take the safety of a newer car over one of my classics.

I do drive my cars often, but I try to stay away from the push and bustle of everyday traffic.

FWIW

E

[John Coffey]

Maybe I was a little harsh... Just remember, if skills and abilities are all you need, Senna wouldn't have died at Imola.

[fuzze]

I love the way threads affect people and illicit some emotion ! I road a 10 speed bike for years and gave up on it as it was way to difficult to avoid the fools . As far a driving , come to british columbia where we have a huge immigrant population , where the common saying is '' i can't see , I have a windshield in front of me '' . I have driven all over the eastern Us and I can tell you people in the Carolinas have their **** together . go to Seattle and you take your life in your hands but make it to oregon and you can feel safe once again . 5horseman , Maryland driving is a nightmare and if you would like to come to Vancouver Island or to the Coquihalla highway or the Sea to sky you would have a real adventure with a well tuned car . As far as skill and ability some people have it and others will never even come close . where do you want to place yourself in that line !

Chris

[JacktheRiffer]

I tend to drive as if everybody is trying to kill me if that makes sense...

[clutchdust]

I tend to drive as if everybody is trying to kill me if that makes sense...

That does make sense. The question is, do you really know how to do that? I'm not trying to insult you by any means. I remember when I first started to drive, I thought I had it figured out. In my 20's I thought I really knew what I was doing and I was a good driver. In my 30's I got involved in autocross and open track events. That's when I learned what a sucky driver I really was. I'd like to think now that I'm vastly improved but like any skill it takes practice. And as the saying goes, practice makes perfect but the real idiom is perfect practice makes perfect.

Sadly, I know this from driving as well as shooting but we guys make lousy students. We let our egos drive us too much. It's hard for us to admit there is someone somewhere (and most of the time many people everywhere) better at a given thing than we are. If you can shelve your ego for a couple days go find a local autocross or track event and get to know some people. You get a ride from a local hot shoe and you'll have a better appreciation for how much you have to learn. I've been doing it now for almost 15 years and I learn things every time I get on the track.

[5thhorsemann]

5horseman , Maryland driving is a nightmare and if you would like to come to Vancouver Island or to the Coquihalla highway or the Sea to sky you would have a real adventure with a well tuned car . As far as skill and ability some people have it and others will never even come close . where do you want to place yourself in that line !

Chris

fuzze, Maryland and DC drivers are the worst in North America according to the insurance companies, we will give anyone a license to drive here. Add to that the construction of the roads laid over the buggy trails of the 1700's, and half of the people that can't drive to begin with are lost and looking to find their way home.

The idea that you can compare track driving skills to road driving skills is dangerous. Sure knowing your cars handling characteristics translates to both, but 99% of the competition on the roads would be kicked off the track in the first lap. You have an expectation of what other drivers are going to pull in a race, no such expectations or trust of the others around you should exist in the real world. You should expect the worst out of other drivers, the stupidest, the most dangerous, and the least courteous is the soup dujoir every day

[fuzze]

5th horseman , you should re-read the posts , the only poster making comparisons to the road and the track is John Coffey . This isn't even a intelligent comparison unless you are at a state fair involved in a demolition derby . Racing is a directional pursuit , just ask John

[Wade Nelson]

Quick question: which brakes are more important front or back?

Instead of insulting you, allow me to try and answer your question. The front brakes do 80+% (appx) of the braking work on MOST cars. However, the way most brake systems are designed, the fronts don't engage until AFTER the rears have begun to engage. This results in a weight shift to the front --- the nose dives a little bit. This puts even MORE weight on the front tires, allowing the front brakes to perform even MORE braking work before a skid begins. If you've ever driven go-karts, you know that locking up the rear wheels tends to make the rear end swing around --- something you desperately want to avoid, especially in a Z, which may spin and "swap ends" on you.

Whereas locking up, skidding the fronts TENDS to result in understeer --- you scrub off rubber, speed, and energy as the front "can't make the corner." If you're lucky, you regain traction BEFORE going off the road. Furthermore, once the front locks up, by letting off the front brakes, you can trade braking energy for cornering energy. Think of a pie, you can apply various amounts of traction to either cornering OR braking. Which is why you brake on the straightaway BEFORE you get into a corner, so you can have ALL your traction available for cornering. The "circle of traction" is a concept you really DO need to understand before you start aggressively driving sports cars, if only to keep yourself alive.

Manufacturers have long found that cars which understeer are GENERALLY safer for consumers than those that OVERSTEER, and slide the rear end around.

I'll stand back and let all the "experts" clarify, correct, argue, etc. at this point.