What is more important, SHOW or GO?

[Zvoiture]

Seriously. Say for instance you buy somewhat of a beater Z which can be driven. Do you make it good-looking first? Or do you make it purr/roar first? Is the first thing on the agenda sharp-looking wheels? Or a new exhaust system? Do you get rid of the points disty or the torn seats? Do you buy a K&N intake or matching side mirrors? Do you re-build a 5-speed or start pulling dings? Do you install a 3-core or rear deck carpet? Suspension bushings get replaced or the peeling bumpers get replaced?

steve

[Arizona240z]

With that said...... leave the inline 6 alone! Take the 260's to the darkside if you have to go there. Ok, now that I've ticked off about half of the group remember I'm a bit sarcastic and I believe everyone should be allowed to do just about anything they want. But speed and reliability are more important in my book.......

Dwight

[XYZ]

Great question. For me, the go takes precidence. I can live with a crappy exterior (less so on interior) if the car runs. It's pretty embarrassing to get whipped by a beater. You don't have anything to lose in a beater. I had an old chevy truck that you needed vice grips to roll down the windows and it was actually two different trucks combined into one, a real piece of %^$# and it looked every bit of it, but it ran. Surprised alot of people and the best part was I didn't care much about the truck itself. Really fun to smoke a ricer that's all tricked out to the nine's but doesn't run.

Ultimately though, I would want a car that is complete and looked every bit as nice as it runs pending I had the money to channel into a project. On a limited budget, depending on the car, I might split the difference between performance and looks. An old 'vette for me as an example, I would spend a lot of money on its looks but it would be able to back it up too. My old truck, nah!

[XYZ]

Arizona240 meant to say 280's not 260's. :stupid: :dead:

KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Victor Laury]

I Really shoot for a balance of both.

[Bambikiller240]

I'll start by saying that I prefer my 240Z to be close to stock, but "optimized" to get the best out of the stock components.

Bambikiller's still got a bent up front end, but the suspension has been completely rebuilt w/ KYB's, new ball-joints, and tie-rods, and urethane bushings throughout two years ago. The fuel system (lined tank, new vent lines, and pump) was done a year ago, with 3 core radiator added as well. I rebuilt the brakes completely this past summer, and POR'd one floorpan. The other floorpan is scheduled for Spring. The engine is still original but I have a low mileage 240 motor that I'm refreshing (w/ a Rebello built "stock" early E88 head), ZTherapy carbs are ready to go with the motor as well. The interior is original, and needs a bit of work, but isn't too bad for 32 years old. I have a lot of work I still want to do to Bambikiller, but Go is more of a priority than Show for me. I have collected 99% of the body stuff to make her like I want her (Thanks for the Hood, Royce and recently some bumper parts from Burt). Give me a few years, and it will ALL come together the way I want her.

[EScanlon]

I agree with BambiKiller's first sentence although I differ on my opinion on the rest. (Not saying he's wrong.)

To me, there are far too many cars out there that are still running that unfortunately don't look good, or as good as they should. This isn't a put down on anyone who is still working on getting his / her car mechanically sound before proceeding onto exterior appearances. In fact, I heartily promote that to my friends, make it mechanically sound BEFORE you make it pretty. To me there's nothing more heartbreaking than seeing a beautiful car in the boneyard for some serious flaw that was overlooked. (You know the ones I'm referring to, rusted out frame rails, floor pans, KEY components that spell doom for a car.)

So, if the car operates safely, properly and without trouble, take the time to at least make it look maintained. There are too many "calico" cars out there. Those are the ones with different color panels. Unfortunately, people see those, and judge all of that model by those few.

2¢

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by EScanlon

I agree with BambiKiller's first sentence although I differ on my opinion on the rest. (Not saying he's wrong.)

Hi Enrique:

So how do you differ on the rest of my post? I'm merely describing what I've done to the car. Do you not consider rebuiding the systems as "optimizing"? Curious I am.

[EScanlon]

Sorry if that came out wrong.

There isn't anything that I'm opposed to in your post, as I generally do the same as you are doing. Where I don't understand nor want urethane bushings, there are lots of people who speak well of them. I've also heard that they can make the ride a bit harsher. Maybe I've gone soft in the rear, but I'm not wanting a harder ride. Yes, I've heard the argument regarding response, handling, etc. But I'm not looking to build a car that can handle 160mph through that famous winding road in San Francisco. I am content going 60-70mph in a quiet smooth ride.

I don't wish to classify your optimization as performance upgrading, as that may not be your intent. But in a fast read, that's where we differ. In my life I've discovered that if you ride your car HARD you can expect it to require lots of maintenance. Since I intend to hold onto my Z for MANY years, (Hey, it took me close to 30 to own my first one.) I certainly do NOT intend to run it into the ground or into some unyielding substance.

Am I saying your view is wrong? Not at all, not in the slightest, nor, I hope, did I imply it. If I did, I'll retract it here.

Optimizing is a very personal item.

Where one individual feels that louvers on the rear window (which I have) are a requirement to keeping the interior cool, another feels that they are to keep the carpet and plastic from fading. I put them on for BOTH those reasons. Another person feels that it makes the car ~look~ faster. Yet someone else will say that it is to keep prying eyes out. Which one is wrong? None.

Where I admit readily that I couldn't tell the difference between an E-88 head and whatever other types there are out there, I trust that those people, such as you and others whose posts I've read, DO know the difference. If I were inclined to do all those modifications, I would take your advice and apply it. But, the car as she sits, operates nicely, has good acceleration, and although the mileage is not the best, it isn't in the single digits. I'm sure someone else would feel that there is much to ...optimize... in the engine.

So as far as having different opinions, no doubt. Am I in disagreement with you? No.

Enrique Scanlon

[Bambikiller240]

Thanks for the response, Enrique. No, I didn't think you were saying that I was wrong. I was just curious as to where you were coming from in the Z scheme of things.

Perhaps I should have clarified a bit more. Yes, I do prefer the urethane bushings, as I do like the car to handle, and respond a bit more quickly than the stock rubber bushings allow. I'd NEVER go to the solid aluminum/delrin bushings that some use (I've gotten fairly soft in the rear as I've aged) but I don't mind the slight difference noticed when changing from rubber to urethane. I do drive the car quickly on windy roads, and enjoy the sensations of a sports car handling the turns more precisely. The KYB struts are, to most people; far too soft for great handling (much softer than Tokiko Illuminas, Koni's, or Bilsteins), but I'm satisfied with them for my purposes. My car seldom sees 100 mph, but it does get there on occasion.

The engine I aquired for refreshing, came with the early E88 cylinder head and is a correct head for a 72 (my car came from the factory with an early E88) and I've paid Dave Rebello to just do a stock rebuild, nothing fancy. My request to them was to make sure everything was as close to "perfect" valvetrain geometry as possible without doing a full ITS racing ($$) optimization. I took the work to them because I wanted it done right, not for high HP. The ony "change" was to replace the orignial soft valve seats with ones designed to handle modern no lead gasoline.

I do expect that the driving of my car will require a bit more maintainance than if I drove it less robustly, but I actually enjoy working on the car (half the fun of a Z car, IMHO) so that isn't an issue to me.

I have the louvers too, and I do not intend to run my car into the ground, or some unyielding substance. My meeting with Bambi was not a result of aggressive driving, and was actually the impetus for replacing the stock rubber brake hoses with stainless braided hoses to gain quicker braking response to unexpected situations. I expect to have my car for a long time just as you do and my changes to the car are meant to ensure that I can drive it the way I enjoy driving, for a long time to come.

I don't think your approach is wrong either.

Talk to you later!

Carl

[bonniec75209]

I love to go fast, but to me, looks come first. Of course, when you are restoring the car you make it mechanically sound before you start on the looks. (Especially if you are driving it in the meantime, as I am!!) It always makes me sad to go to a car show and see classic old cars distorted beyond recognition by some moron with more money than sense. KEEP IT ORIGIONAL!!!!! (Just my 2 chirps worth)

[Daniel]

I vote mech. first.Nothing would be worse than get the body correct and crash due to a mech. failure.The most correct reason.You want all the mech. done so you are not working around a new paint job while slinging wrenches and parts and corrossive fluids.Accidents happen, or should I say acciDENTS. Daniel