Now that's a brake upgrade!

[Oiluj]

Wow. only $150 / $400? That's sounds very reasonable.

Would you need to upgrade the rear brakes as well, or at least put in an adjustible propotioning valve to keep it balanced?

[jmortensen]

Those are not interchangeable. $150 buys you a Wilwood caliper. $400 buys you a complete kit with the vented 4x4 brakes. Does the Wilwood work with the vented brakes? I don't know, probably not or people would be posting pictures. Buy someone who wanted two could probably put the two together or make a spacer that worked. A narrow mount Wilwood fits the strut mounts for the calipers though.

And yes, IMO you'd have to do something to the rear to get it balanced. The old catalog mentions running dual masters, something that most people won't want to bother with, but it would also be possible to run larger rears to match the fronts and dial it in with an adjustable prop valve.

[madkaw]

From someone who is running a complete Wildwood kit from AZ Z car, this is a very nice upgrade. Yes, very spendy, but an upgrade that will never need to be upgraded. It's done concerning brakes. I considered many options and in my opinion the extra money was worth the ease of installment and not looking back again. More than enough for my HP rating and my driving habits, but has never felt overpowering and actually the brake feel is as good as any modern sports car I have driven. Yes the rears are way overkill, but my logic was that I will never visit any kind of rear brake work in this car's life time.(kind of miss the parking brake though:))

Yes it was also about the bling of having 4 wheel discs, but these work very well and Dave sells a well thought out kit.

[Carl Beck]

I have the FIA 4 piston calipers with ventilated rotors on the BRE Baja Z. Yes, they are paired with larger diameter rear wheel cylinders. In short - IMHO - they are a huge upgrade over the stock system.

The main difference between them and the OEM Brake set up - to me - is the drivers ability to modulate brake pedal pressure and the feedback in braking force. It is FAR easier to haul the Z down from any speed with a precise and desired speed/distance ratio reduction with the FIA set up. The brakes are smoother - more linear in application of braking force vs pedal movement.

In the stock system - you seem to have very little braking force applied to the rotors at the top 1/4 or 1/3 pedal downward position... then the brakes come on more suddenly and fully at that bottom half the pedal pressure - where you have to really apply a lot of pedal pressure to get the clamping force you need at that point.

The actual stopping distance might very well be the same between the two with an experienced driver - but the ease of making controlled speed reductions is far better with the FIA set-up. It is a large difference that one feels at once.

To me - that feel and control are a major upgrade to the Z

FWIW,

Carl B.

[madkaw]

Carl,

that's exactly what my feeling are about the Wildwood upgrade. It's the linear control at any speed and the confidence I feel when braking that sets this system apart from maybe others. I have driven stock Z's, but not with minor brake upgrades, so I can't judge one against the other. In a lot of hard driving-not track days- I have never locked up, only once in a panic stock to avoid being crashed by someone else.

I would bet the stopping distance would NOT be the same.

[John Coffey]

By its very nature (increased pad and piston area), the S8W (non-vented 4x4) caliper and rotor swap increases front brake bias. In my testing it actually increases braking distances over a well setup stock S30 brake system. This is also true of a the S12W (vented 4x4) caliper and rotor swap. What most people confuse as the "improved" braking of the 4x4 caliper swap is a change in pedal feel. Also, its often a false comparison given the the new 4x4 swap is compared with a worn out, ill adjusted, partially functioning stock brake system.

If additional work is done as part of the swap to move the brake bias back to stock then you can get back the braking distance lost with the 4x4 swap.

[conedodger]

By its very nature (increased pad and piston area), the S8W (non-vented 4x4) caliper and rotor swap increases front brake bias. In my testing it actually increases braking distances over a well setup stock S30 brake system. This is also true of a the S12W (vented 4x4) caliper and rotor swap. What most people confuse as the "improved" braking of the 4x4 caliper swap is a change in pedal feel. Also, its often a false comparison given the the new 4x4 swap is compared with a worn out, ill adjusted, partially functioning stock brake system.

If additional work is done as part of the swap to move the brake bias back to stock then you can get back the braking distance lost with the 4x4 swap.

Exactly.

[Oiluj]

By its very nature (increased pad and piston area), the S8W (non-vented 4x4) caliper and rotor swap increases front brake bias. In my testing it actually increases braking distances over a well setup stock S30 brake system. This is also true of a the S12W (vented 4x4) caliper and rotor swap. What most people confuse as the "improved" braking of the 4x4 caliper swap is a change in pedal feel. Also, its often a false comparison given the the new 4x4 swap is compared with a worn out, ill adjusted, partially functioning stock brake system.

If additional work is done as part of the swap to move the brake bias back to stock then you can get back the braking distance lost with the 4x4 swap.

I fully agree, and did install a proportiong valve which I played with to balance the brakes. My brakes are smoother and pedal feel is better than what it was stock, which I consider a worthwhile improvement.

In terms of braking distance though, I never thought it was going to make much difference. Perhaps I'm wrong, but in my limited experence, (no "official" racing anyway), the everyday tires as on my Z are the weak link. In terms of handling, my car is certainly tire limited, and I expect my braking distance is as well.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Oiluj

[jmortensen]

The big question is if you were able to get the bias correct with the prop valve. With my Toy front 280ZX rear I couldn't get enough rear brake to lock the rear wheels even while driving through a puddle (driving school exercise).

[EuroDat]

Am i missing something here? If you "upgrade" your front brakes and leave the rear as is you will need a proportioning valve to correct the balance between front and back.

Or in other words, use the proportioning valve to reduce the front braking power so the car is in balance when braking. Then your back to square one.

Therefore you have to upgrade the rear to have any real benifit. The problem with this is that you now enter unknown territory because you now have a combi from two different vehicles on the front. Discs from the z and calipers from toyota 4x4.

IMO I would be more inclined to investigate a complete change over to eg 300zx (z31 or 5 stud z32).

[jmortensen]

You are missing something. An adjustable proportioning valve goes in the REAR braking system (ONLY!!!) and replaces the stock unit. Since a lot of weight transfers off of the rear wheels under braking, the rears don't need to be as strong as the fronts, but they still have to be strong enough to do the job. The issue with the Toy setup is that they are so much stronger than the rears that you're often left with too little rear braking, which ends up lengthening stopping distances. Adding an adjustable proportioning valve in that situation won't help because it can't add force to the rear brakes or subtract it from the front brakes. It can only reduce the rear braking force, which ideally starts at "too strong" and gets modulated down to "just right".

[EuroDat]

use the proportioning valve to reduce the front braking power so the car is in balance when braking.

Jon, Thanks for correcting me.

I didnt write that very clearly. Should have read it over before posting.

I meant you need to reduce spring pressure in the standard proportioning valve. "reduce the spring pressure to compensate for the front braking power." the only way to do this without modifying the original is to replace it with an adjustable proportioning valve and than you need enough capacity in the rear brakes to compensate. If thats not enough you are left with upgrading the rear or at least fitting bigger wheel cylinders to the rear brakes.

Thats the whole problem I am getting at. You need to do a fare share of R&D to get it right and IMO brakes are not something to play around with until you get it right. If your racing it then you have the place to test under controlled conditions, but someone using the car for street use, that is NO testing ground. My brakes are standard and work excellent for street use.

I like this thread. Its the way we learn from each other and maybe someone has done a lot of testing and come up with the right combo.

Chas