New Logo

[conedodger]

My wife says she associates that flag with her great-grandfather being marched off and subsequently shot on the Bataan Death March... She says though, that the rest of the world needn't suffer because of her association. She just wouldn't buy a shirt. If you find something distasteful, avoid it. Don't subject the rest of the world to your own values. (Her words. Not mine)

[Arne]

FWIW - that flag was retired long before any of these cars were introduced, so I personally have a hard time seeing the relevance. Why the Imperial flag? Why not Japan's current flag? Do JDM folks use the Imperial flag just BECAUSE it's a bit shocking to some?

[jfa.series1]

FWIW - that flag was retired long before any of these cars were introduced, so I personally have a hard time seeing the relevance. Why the Imperial flag? Why not Japan's current flag? Do JDM folks use the Imperial flag just BECAUSE it's a bit shocking to some?

Check out the Wiki link I included and you will see that stylized versions of the old flag are still in use by the successors of the WWII army and navy - specifically the Japanese Ground Self-Defense Forces and the Japanese Marine Self-Defense Forces. The Rising Sun is also found on the labels of commercial products. The sense of nationalism is quite strong in Japan. I have no argument with how Japan or its citizens perceive themselves. Yes, they are great trading partners and now strong allies. Perception is a two-way issue - by self and by others. My comments are limited to my perception of Mike's work and how it might be viewed by others. I like the comment that suggests if you don't like it, don't buy it.

[FastWoman]

Honestly, the significance of the Rising Sun flag flew right by me, other than a recognition that it was Japanese. I still didn't like the design, although I heartily agree the sugar scoops are the coolest design feature of our Z's. Perhaps the reason I didn't like it was that it didn't appear glossy.

Perhaps you could do a stylized sugar scoop, almost like a mirror-surfaced CAD rendering that reflects scenery flying by.

[72 OJ]

I like the sugar scoop detail, maybe make it more relevant.............:bulb:

[spitz17]

Totally fine settling with not supporting the symbol by simply not buying any merchandise with it on. It's fine if this site wants to keep it up there, actually.

But, "Get over it?" Really?? How ignorant can some people be? So would it be okay to put a Nazi Symbol as a BMW Forum's main symbol?

I'm "over it," really. However, I don't believe in resurrecting a flag that stood tall above 300,000 murders in Nan Jing alone... which included rape and head chopping competitions. Sorry to be graphic, but just sayin'.

Like Arne said, why not the modern Japanese Flag?

Edited December 11, 2012 by spitz17

[spitz17]

Logged in to comment just about this topic. Absolutely brilliant design, Mike. GREAT logo! I noticed the headlight shape right away.

You guys with all your WWII and "can't change anything" attitudes; "GET OVER IT"! I can think of two web sites in the last nine years that have failed because they DIDN'T change, grow, evolve, keep up with the times. Popular web sites. Run by one of the most popular guys in this group (Z-Car people).

I fully support what you're tryingto do, Mike. Keep up the good work!

In all do respect, no one is denying what Japan has done for or provided the world. This is why I support the country 100%, studied there, and buy their cars. I highly doubt that this site is so dependent on this particular flag to result in a failure similar to the the 'two websites' you mention. I can name millions of sites that were innovative, kept up with change, grew, evolved, kept up with the times, that did not use controversial symbols tainted with murder.

The only question I have is... does it really hurt to make a symbol that isn't so controversial?

Edited December 11, 2012 by spitz17

[EuroDat]

Hey Mike, did you just change the logo a minute ago. I swear I logged in with the Imperial flag Z scoop.

[26th-Z]

The Nazi swastika is the symbol of a political party whereas the Hinomaru is the symbol of a nation. The Nazi swastika is banned in Germany unlike the Hinomaru which is not in Japan. In fact the Hinomaru forms the basis of the current Japanese flag, ratified in 1999, and is in common use today. Like the ancient swastika symbol, the Japanese symbol representing the rising sun dates back to the 700s. Wouldn't you agree that your issue is a perfect illustration of how ignorant people can be, spitz17?

Hinomaru was used extensively during the art revolution in Japan during the 1920's which significantly influenced Western art at the time. The Rising Sun design certainly represents national pride to the Japanese people, but it also has roots to our Datsuns. These logos date back to the thirties. Also, the red ball Datsun logo is an obvious derivation of the Hinomaru and it could be well argued that the current Nissan logo is a progression.

Mike, your graphic is inwardly leading, focusing, unique, and quite imaginative for such a recognizable image. I particularly enjoy the t-shirt design which incorporates the image down the side of the shirt body.

[spitz17]

The Nazi swastika is the symbol of a political party whereas the Hinomaru is the symbol of a nation. The Nazi swastika is banned in Germany unlike the Hinomaru which is not in Japan. In fact the Hinomaru forms the basis of the current Japanese flag, ratified in 1999, and is in common use today. Like the ancient swastika symbol, the Japanese symbol representing the rising sun dates back to the 700s. Wouldn't you agree that your issue is a perfect illustration of how ignorant people can be, spitz17?

I applaud you for studies of the Hinomaru, 26th-Z. Maybe I am less knowledgeable in the roots of these two symbols but I honestly don't think my issue is the 'perfect illustration' of ignorance. Quite the opposite actually, as my issue was not with the whole story of either the flag or the Nazi Symbol, merely a scarred part of them, which I personally feel deserves another look when considering to make it a main logo of a site that consists of individuals who's families may have been affected. Regardless symbol or flag, they are both SYMBOLS, and both are unfortunately tied to less fortunate events. Again, even though I have some grievances to the use of this symbol... I am not here to tell CZCC they cannot use it, just simply state the facts. That would be quite unfair.

My target of discussion was more aimed at your less than pleasant comment that people should just "Get Over it." This is a bit harsh to those who still hold deep emotion to the subject matter, don't you think? If you stuck with digging deeper into the details behind the Hinomaru, as you have so kindly shown me, and with it formed a reasonable defense of why our CZCC logo should be fairly considered, I would not have commented. Do you have any family ties to those who suffered in Nanjing China, other parts of China, Korea, and a large vicinity of South East Asia? I would, possibly ignorantly, guess that you do not. Your views are your own and I respect them, but while we are at it, why don't we just tell individuals of Jewish decent to "Get over it!!," possibly, 9-11 victims' families to "Get over it!!" That kind of attitude will not be taken with a kind heart, and I apologize if you expect it to.

I also find it interesting how you managed to only address one sentence in my two posts. At no point prior to your post, or even up until now, did anyone argue that change was bad. In fact, I believe that there is PLENTY of room for it, both visually and functionally. My question to you is how is the growth and success of this site limited by simply not using a controversial logo? If anything, I think it would be more negative than positive. Why risk it? Yes, people will always have issues with what one creates, but I believe there would be considerably less people with issues if the logo was simply 'ugly,' rather than if it daunted on a touchy subject.

You mentioned two sites you know of failed because they were not friendly to change and innovation. I could be totally wrong, but I highly doubt that limiting what can be used as a logo has anything to do with the big picture of why those two sites failed. MANY factors could have contributed.

On another note, I love the photos you have attached. Although it may not have been your intention, these would all be great candidates to include in a logo or main banner.

Mike, I am very happy you are exploring other avenues to make this site better for everyone. And although I may not agree with the logo itself, please keep up and thank you for the the work and dedication!

Edited December 11, 2012 by spitz17

[TomoHawk]

I didn't think much of the red design because it was just all red. Today's computers capable of more than just one colour. Plus I always like the image of the S30 too.

Edited December 11, 2012 by TomoHawk

[AZ-240z]

Some of my ideas! This club is all about an appreciation of an iconic sports car, developed by hightly respected individuals, and designed with a beauty and functionality that transends the decads since its inseption.

Why not use a technique called ghosting popularized by some very innovative paint designs to visually pay respect to how well the z-car has withstood the test of time.

Could you not use this ghosting technique by incorporating elements such as the stylized, recognizable lines of a sugar scoop, images of Mr. K and Matsuo San, and the hood ornament or

the Datsun logo shown above in 26th-z attachements, all ghosted together in some form. Incorporate the name of the club in smaller font so it would not dominate this ghosting theme but makes one actually look for the name represented in the images.

These are just my brainstorming ideas which could give a unique look to a logo, but I don't have the creative computer talents to formalize a look.

FWIW

Dan

Just had another thought concerning the club name. You could overlay the entire logo with the club name using a watermark technique which would not obscure the logo images but

fit nicely with the ghosting technique.

Just a thought

Edited December 11, 2012 by AZ-240z