Spindle Pin Woes

[ksechler]

Pounding them out with a drift will probably not work if they are too tight to pull out.

The pounding can actually swell the ends, and make them tighter.

They need to be pressed out.

Yes, you are probably right. I take back that bad advice.

Hardway, I will tell you a press is mandatory for the rear bearings and also helpful installing the bushings, so if you on the fence maybe you should go ahead and get it for this job and also use it on the bearings.

Edited February 11, 2013 by ksechler

[Captain Obvious]

I bought the HF 20T A-frame press a bunch of years ago. I liked the design of the A one more than their standard H frame. I'm not sure they still offer the A-frame in 20T, but I know they still have the H.

Anyway, I used it as designed for a few years and then after getting tired of a few of it's shortcomings, I made a bunch of improvements. So, if you do get a HF press, let me know and I'll see if I can document the details of what I did to mine to make it better than new.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Captain Obvious

[Hardway]

Back at it again today. I went to Harbor Freight this morning and purchased one of their 20 ton presses. I bought the 20 ton over the 12 ton version because the 20 ton was only $20 more and had much better reviews. The overall construction seems to be very good regardless of it being made in China.

I used the bolt method as mentioned above so the press would have something to push against while pushing on the pin. I drilled a 3/8 inch hole first, used a grade-8 3/8 bolt and the pin moved maybe 1/16 of an inch while crushing the bolt. I then moved up to a 1/2 inch grade-8 bolt as recommended and it moved the pin out some more to the distance you see in the picture below. At this point I had worked at it for about 6 hours and called it a day. I need to source a dounut for the hub assembly to sit on while I push the pin out and have it be strong enough to not give under the intense pressure of the press, I was using a small piece of iron pipe scrap that started to compress. Just to get the pin to move the little that it did took all the power of the press, almost to the point where it was making me nervous. I did heat the hub assembly and was careful not to over heat it and heat up the pin. Another thing, I need a good second set of hands as wrestling the assembly in to place on the press was a job all in itself. All in all today yielded a very small victory but in reality the entire weekend feels like a disappointment. Maybe the upcoming 3-day weekend will yield better results.

Disclaimer: to anyone reading this, if you are thinking of attempting this kind of work on your own and doubt or question your abilities please seek the assistance of a professional. This is very dangerous work and if something were to go wrong the end result would likely be very bad.

[EuroDat]

What can I say. Spindle pins were invented to give us restorers nightmares. Its probably the most dreaded job you can do on a Z. The one your got looks like it came straight from hell.

The press looks like a good investment. You would never had flog that pin out with a hammer.

For your dounut you could try heavy gauged steel water pipe. Use a 3/4" inside a 1" pipe or 1" in 1-1/2". That will keep in from collapsing I hope. Your using a 20ton press which can destroy just about anything in its way.

You could also try 5/8" grade 8 bolts. They are close to 16mm so you might need to grind them done a bit to get enough clearance. Try to get them as long as possible (2" or 3" long) cut the heads of and drop them in the hole and keep pushing through like that until it comes out the other end.

The drivers side spindle pin on my 280z kept me and my mate of the street for a hole saturday and sunday morning. I had an anvil from the next door neighbour, a couple of different lenghts 1/2" bolts and plenty of heat. I wasnt looking forward to doing the other side and the dam thing came out so easy that I could reuse it. Maybe your other pin will be easier. Cant imagine it being any worse than this.

Dont give up on it. It seems disapointing but your getting there, just a little behind your schedule.

[Zed Head]

At least you got a new press for the garage.

One thing I see missing from your pictures is lubrication. I'm sure it would help and might make the difference. And, since you have a bolt in the end you can twist the shaft to loosen it up. When I took mine out I put a mag wheel lug nut on the end and spun the shaft around while soaking with PB Blaster. That lets it get in where it can do some good, and the spinning grinds down the rust particles that are holding the shaft in.

You'll look back on it as good times some day...

[240260280z]

Don't forget acetone and transmission fluid 50/50mix and squirt in the centre hole and ends as you press. Use the press to work the pin back and forth to let the lubricant penetrate and make it easier to ultimately push it all the way.

FYI:

Source: Machinist's Workshop Magazine (April 2007)

Pentrating oil--------Average load

None------------------------516 pounds

WD-40----------------------238 pounds

PB Blaster------------------214 pounds

Liquid Wrench-------------127 pounds

Kano Kroil------------------106 pounds

ATF-Acetone mix------------53 pounds (mixed 1 to 1 ratio)

.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Blue

[Captain Obvious]

Your troubles with this job parallel my experiences. :mad:

The proponents of the spindle pin puller devices have never crossed paths with a pin like yours. More power to 'em, but my experience has led me to believe that if the spindle is stuck so minimally that a puller device would succeed, then it's in there so loose that I would never have needed a fancy puller in the first place. Regardless of how robust the puller is...

Make sure you have a good solid square to the direction of the pressure backing for the knuckle. Make sure you are getting the force normal to the end of the pin. Wear safety glasses, gloves, and a face shield.

So, while I can't add any additional specific insights as to what to do at this point, I can simply provide solidarity. I feel for ya.

[ksechler]

Food for thought:

If I were in your situation I would lube up the section that you now have exposed and the inside of the other side of the strut where you pushed it through. Then I would push it back in (as long as it didn't take excessive force) and see if the pin would come out the other side. I would just keep lubing and working it back and forth the small amount you can. Eventually the lubrication will work in and you will be able to press it all the way out.

[Hardway]

Thank you guys for all the encouragement and suggestions. I plan to pick up a large selection of sockets and remove the hub and bearings to make it easier to move the hub carrier around. Once that is done I am going to throw in my vice, mix up some Acetone and ATF, pour some in the top where the pin has been pushed in, and let it sit for the week, periodically checking it to see if it has drained down in between the pin and wall of the hole. I will also put some around the center of the pin too. My only fear is that the pin is in so tight the fluid may not go any where. Pushing the pin back in is not really an option as it took a lot of time and force to get it out just to where it is at. If the penetrating fluid works it might become an option but we will see.

In regards to the doughnut I need, some heavy duty pipe fittings should do the trick. To be honest, I am pretty psyched to have the press and already using it. I have been reading about all the possibilities that can be realized with even a simple press like mine. For now though I am staying focused on the project at hand. If all goes well I will have some updates later this week.

[EuroDat]

Goodluck with. Its a good idea to leave it a while with the acetone atf mix. The pin is so tight that the fluid might not penetrate that far.

Keep us posted. It will be interesting to see when it comes out.

Chas

[olzed]

I agree with Ksechler. Lube the protruding end and press the pin back in then out.

Otherwise get that sucker real hot.

I hope i never have to do mine. I helped a friend some years back, heat, pounding, etc.

He ended up taking them to a shop with a good hyd. press.

Edited February 11, 2013 by olzed

[cbuczesk]

I agree with Ksechler. Lube the protruding end and press the pin back in then out.

Otherwise get that sucker real hot.

I agree, too.

Chuck