Spraying of all the hollow parts against rust?

[jmortensen]

If you have a rusty car and you spray some sort of protectant on it, that won't make the rust that is already in the rocker magically disappear, but it might make the progression of the rust slow down or stop. The fact that the rust was all stuck together indicates that whatever was sprayed in there penetrated all those layers of rust.

[jmortensen]

[John Coffey]

In my example that rust was still going on. The inner and out parts of the rocker panel has lots of nice, fresh rust. I know people want to believe a little liquid magic will solve their problem, but it won't. And even if the magic liquid worked as advertised, there's no way to get good coverage spraying through a little hole into a large cavity with multiple layers of metal.

Now, if the metal is clean then these products can prevent rust and are worth the effort. I spray Wurth's Body Cavity Protection Spray into new, clean metal, repaired sections on car. But even the Wurth guy who's trying to sell me gallons of this stuff says that once there's rust in the cavities, the spray doesn't do anything. If there is rust already in those cavities, all this stuff does is add to the cost of the final, correct repair.

[bartsscooterservice]

I think if it's that bad like holes start popping out everywhere, and huge rust flakes it sure will have no more effect, but if you start to have light surface rust on the inside, it should be worth spraying it with some kind of a blocker? That waxy sticky stuff i'm planning on spraying on, must sure do something on light rust? If not then why it's advertised? Rust is a process that keeps going, but if you seal of the oxygen en water supply the best you can, it must be able to slow down the process quite a bit?

Wiki:

Rust formation can be controlled with coatings, such as paint, lacquer, or varnish that isolate the iron from the environment. Large structures with enclosed box sections, such as ships and modern automobiles, often have a wax-based product (technically a "slushing oil") injected into these sections. Such treatments usually also contain rust inhibitors.

Loose or thick rust must be removed before anti-rust wax like Waxoyl or a similar product is used. Wax does not penetrate spot welded seams or thick rust well. A penetrating anti-rust product like WD-40 followed by anti-rust wax can be more effective.

Edited February 12, 2013 by bartsscooterservice

[steve91tt]

I'm in the process of installing BadDog frame rails on my 240Z. Since these are new metal I assume I should seam seal around the edges drill drain holes in the bottoms, prep and paint the outside after welding and oil spray as much of the inside as I can access. Any advice?

[John Coffey]

Again, rust inhibitors are effective on new, clean metal. They are not effective on rusty metal. If it makes you feel better to spray these products into 40+ year old, uninspected body cavities on your S30, got for it.

[jeanp]

I've repaired probably 30 rusty 240Zs over the years and many have been after the owners sprayed POR15, Rust Stop, and many other rust fixers, encapsulators, penetrants, waxes, etc. trying to stop the rust. None of them worked. In fact, they just added to the cost of the repairs because I had to get all that crap off the good metal to do any welding.

Here's a picture of one that had a bunch of rust inhibitor sprayed in the rear of the rocker and up over the wheel well. All it did was stick the rust together.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]61020[/ATTACH]

Ok with this kind of rust nothing will do. The damage is done. there will be no magic you need a big fix. But for your info i bought a accent 4 or 5 years ago for my kid. it was a 2002 model or something like that. We did look about 20 of these before buying. and the one i bought was treated yearly at 'antirouille a l`huile metropolitain' witch are specialist in appliyng anticorosion oil treatment on cars. After 2 or 3 cars we checked we already had spotted the critical areas of rust and that car had no rust at all. Body wyse it is still in good shape. So i think this is not a coincidence. To go everywhere in the cavities they use long hoses that finishes with a kind of octopus end. They do so many cars they may garanty body rust even if the car was not treated for 2 or 3 year after it was delivered first time. and also they know that some cars may be delivered with rust already eating them on the dealer terrain.

[bartsscooterservice]

I agree with you John, but cutting up my Z for a ground up restoration is not what I was looking for at this moment, the body seems pretty good condition overall, yes there might be rust inside the panels, so that's why I was thinking of slowing that process down at the least? On the bottle of Valvoline ML says : changes within 24 hours in an amber colored, waxy, semi-hard transparent film. Displaces water quickly and penetrates into the smallest area's. Penetrates deeply into the rust.

If I do nothing I'm sure the process will go even quicker, since moisture and air is free to continue eating up on that unprotected rust on the surface and eating it's way out of the car slowly.

[bartsscooterservice]

Got the camera today:

Also with it came adapters you can plug onto it, like a mirror ( to look into dead spots ), a magnetic pick up too, and a hook type pick up tool. The hose is flexable but stays strong in position you bend it. The led light in front is dim-able.

This is the cheap version, so it has no recording of usb connection.

[ZCurves]

My dad fought corrosion for Naval Air - he got me using phosphoric acid (OSPHO) in my rust war for the old chevy. It's fairly cheap by the gallon and could be used in some kind of sprayer. Have some Eastwood products - maybe they're better - but haven't used them yet.

This is true! I have used Phosphoric for years to combat corrosion. Stanley is spot on. We have a beach house in Galveston and have used phosphoric acid on boat lifts, boats, fences, table saws and it will stop the corrosion dead in it's tracks. I use it straight and allow to dry - do not rinse off. During the restoration of my Z, I used phosphoric in all of the closed spaces, then after a week of hot days to allow for the acid to dry, I followed with the Eastwood Rust Inhibitor via the sprayer kit. I have not tried the Valvoline or Boeshield T-9 products but I believe they are much the same. It is similar to Cosmoline used in the military.

Phosphoric acid is known to be a terminal oxidizer. It is a very strong reagent and when it has completed its job of converting iron oxide to ferric phosphate it can be brushed off and painted (POR-15 or Rust-Oleum) or left alone. This is why it is so effective in the closed in areas such as Upper and Lower Frame Rails, Rockers, Door Posts,etc.. The Eastwood, Valvoline or Boeshield T-9 products provide the active protection simply by being viscous on the surface. Phosphoric Acid can be obtained at any larger paint store for ~$20/Gallon. You can also reuse "captured" acid as it flows off of items that are being treated - it wont look pretty, but it is just as effective.

Some Trivia: What gives many Cola soft-drinks that crisp refreshing taste? You guessed it...

Edited February 18, 2013 by ZCurves

[bartsscooterservice]

Was working on the doors this afternoon, and it's all brown..lucky only surface rust, so I need to spray it asap

[EuroDat]

You should treat it with phospheric acid "fosfurzuur". You can find it in most hobby beer brewing shops and chemical stores.

Hulpstoffen

We use it at work to clean stainless. Use about 45,000 litres a year. Works great. That and acetic acid "azijnzuur".

Chas