Trouble with ignition lock cylinder

[bacarl]

I'm having problems with my ignition lock cylinder and need to turn to you guys for help.

Original symptoms, key was stuck in ignition in the ON position so it wouldn't turn to START, or back to OFF. I read on here to spray in some lube, wiggle the key, rap on it with a hammer (this is a bad idea, by the way - will explain later), all without luck. So I pulled the assembly (pictured below) off the steering column and took it to a locksmith.

He found that there's a stop inside the lock to keep the key at the right depth. Mine was cracked (possibly made worse by me hitting the key with a hammer) and hence it was very easy to insert the key slightly too far, at which point the tumblers don't line up and the lock acts as though it has the wrong key in it, that's why it doesn't turn. I'm not clear on why the key can't simply be retracted slightly until it lines up properly, but that doesn't seem to work.

So I bought a used housing (same as what's pictured above) on eBay for $17 to replace the whole shebang, hoping it could be re-keyed to my original ignition key. It turned out to be in worse shape than mine. So I bought a new lock cylinder from RockAuto for antoher $25 and sent it over to the locksmith to retrofit into my housing. No dice, its "keyway is reversed", whatever that means, preventing him from rekeying to my key!

At this point I'm tiring of buying random bits and grasping at straws. Does anyone have any insight on what parts could work and where to source them? Or should I just use the new lock cylinder and have separate keys for ignition and other locks (not preferred, obviously). Thanks for any help!

Edited June 10, 2013 by bacarl

[bacarl]

I should add that RockAuto does offer a few other parts here. I bought the Airtex (least expensive) but there's a Standard Motor Products part and an ACDelco part for more money. I don't want to pay for these "just to try them", but maybe I'd have better luck with one? I have read that the lock cylinder can be replaced and keyed to existing key. I just don't know where to get the right part. Hoping you guys might have some insight.

Edited June 10, 2013 by bacarl

[Wade Nelson]

I can't speak to your specific problem. What I can tell you is it's not JUST the lock cylinder that can wear out. Something in the housing can too. My key stuck in mine. I removed the collar from the car. A professional locksmith, one I've worked with, know and trust, ordered and installed a new cylinder for me, gave me three new keys, etc. Still bound up. So I went with a replacement (used) collar, cylinder, key from eBay, and new ignition switch.

Oh, and lubricate with Tri-flow. Works 100X better than WD-40, etc. Do NOT use graphite, that will short out your ignition switch if it makes its way in.

[bacarl]

10-4 on the Tri-Flow. I used WD40 originally but got some Tri-Flow to use going forward. It's the teflon in it that's really good for locks. Also a good point about the graphite.

What I've learned so far from this locksmith is that there are "long" and "short" cylinders for various model years. He went to his usual source for a replacement cylinder and found they no longer carried/produced the short cylinder that I need. Perhaps your guy accidentally put a long cylinder in your housing? I showed my locksmith a photo of the new cylinder before I purchased and he said it looked like the correct, short cylinder. Only once it showed up he found it had the reversed keyway...

My lock still works if you're careful to only insert the key to a certain point, so I know the whole assembly does function. The locksmith seems to have a magic touch and can do it dozens of times over. I tried once - extremely carefully, mind you - and it immediately locked up on me again after $45 of work! That's when I started shopping for replacement parts.

edit: Wade, did you have that used collar rekeyed to your original?

Edited June 10, 2013 by bacarl

[hogie]

I just went through a similar problem. before trying to replace the cylinder the locksmith actually cut me new keys just a bit shorter than the originals. This allowed them to actuate the tumblers at the proper depth. Unfortunately, this fix only lasted two weeks. After that I just replaced the cylinder with a $21 autozone replacement.

[Captain Obvious]

You got issues.

I'm no locksmith or expert on Z lock genealogy, but from my searching and reading...

When the Z first came out, they used a six tumbler lock shell. I believe there were four different shells available and each required a different key blank to fit. That means there were four possible keys and six tumbler positions for each key. All the lock shells look the same from the outside, and that's why your locksmith said it "looked like the right one". That's because it DID "look" like the right one. Problem is that you can't see inside with just a picture and you can't tell what key blank it needs.

Then sometime along the years, they switched to a seven tumbler shell and I believe there were two different shells requiring different key blanks. That means there were two possible keys and seven tumbler positions for each key. As you could probably imagine, the seven tumbler shells are longer than the six tumbler shells and that's where the "long" and "short" designations come from.

Sounds from your discussions with your locksmith that your car uses one of the older "short" six tumbler shells.

If your goal is to continue to use one key to operate all the locks on the car, you must first determine the correct key blank for your locks and then find an ignition lock shell designed that same key blank. I don't know if parts still exist to do that, but it sounds from your locksmith that he can't get them.

If you've smashed the depth locator feature inside your lock by hammering on the key, you're lucky it works at all with any amount of wiggling. You need a new lock shell and tumblers.

If you can't find the correct shell for your current key blank, you're going to have to carry two keys or change all the other locks to the same new blank as your new ignition lock. I suspect you'll have the same issue there... You won't be able to find door locks or trunk locks that will work with the same key blank.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Captain Obvious

[bacarl]

Nice CO, good info. I do know my original key code, so perhaps I can use that info to source the correct lock shell to fit my key.

My goal is definitely to keep one key that fits all locks. Partly due to the originality of my car, partly (mostly) due to my OCD

[bacarl]

Hey hogie, what year & model Z do you have?

[bacarl]

Supporting Captain Obvious' comments, I've found three separate short-cylinder part numbers so far: C-16-110, C-16-116, and C-16-123, with keyway descriptions like "Taylor X7 / Silca DAT6R", "Taylor X6 / Silca DAT6", and "Taylor X123" respectively. Next step is trying to determine if my key matches one of these keyways.

[hogie]

It's a 72 240z, all is fixed now though

[Captain Obvious]

Nice CO, good info. I do know my original key code, so perhaps I can use that info to source the correct lock shell to fit my key.

My goal is definitely to keep one key that fits all locks. Partly due to the originality of my car, partly (mostly) due to my OCD

Glad to help. I'll try to dig up where I read about the four different key blanks. I wasn't too concerned with the early locks because I've got the later longer style so most of my research centered around that style instead. Let me see what I can dig up...

[Captain Obvious]

I've found three separate short-cylinder part numbers so far: C-16-110, C-16-116, and C-16-123, with keyway descriptions like "Taylor X7 / Silca DAT6R", "Taylor X6 / Silca DAT6", and "Taylor X123" respectively.

Oh, and BTW, Taylor is a brand of key blanks, and the X6 or X7 can be used to determine if it's for the six or seven tumbler design. You can use the longer blank on the shorter locks... You'll just have more unused shank sticking out of the lock. The reverse (using the shorter to work a longer cylinder) might not work because you'll probably run out of length.

I hate when that happens.