Opinions on frame repair.

[77Datz]

My '77 280z has some frame rot, as do most other z's of course. I've been considering what to do about it for the past few weeks. I will be taking some pictures of the damage and posting them here in the morning so you guys can get a better look. But it's mostly localized in the front of the car, the front frame rails are rusty, and on the drivers side section where the sway bar mount is bolted on has a pretty sizable hole. The drivers side wheel well also has some rot, a hole about 2" in diameter.

I work at Advance Auto, and have been speaking to my mechanic customers, and a few welders and have been asking them about my Z issues. Most of them say that it's unrepairable and its best to either sell, or scrap the car. A welder I was talking to tonight said that welding a new front frame rail set on the car would "cost thousands and require robotic welding" he also told me that new front frame rails, if welded in "when they weren't welded to begin with" would be a lot weaker then the stock rails. Now I don't know how many Datsun's this guy has delt with, but I really hope what he's saying isn't true. I want to get a new set of front frame rails, as well as running rails and fix the problems, but not if it's going to be a waste of time, money and hope. It'd kill me to have to sell the car, everything else is in great shape and the motor is great. The previous owner had it completely rebuilt and dumped over 11K into it.

What are some of my options? What have you guys done to fix your frame rot problems?

I'll post pictures here tomorrow.

Thanks all!

[zKars]

There are literally 100's of us here and on hybrid and other forums who have performed these repairs without a robotic welder. Maybe we did something wrong! As to cost, we don't count the cost of our time, but if we did, it would be in the thousands of dollars even at minimum wage for any serious rust repair.

Now depending on your budget, skills, time and access to welders, grinders etc, I can say with some confidence that it is much easier and cheaper to find a low-rust (there is no such thing as a "rust free" datsun....) car as your starting point. Even bringing it back from the dry west to your remote easterly location makes sense. There is nothing more time (and hence labor $$) intensive work as rust repair and body work. Generally speaking the only way its affordable is to do it yourself. Another hard learned lesson. The rust you see is 20-25% of the rust issues you have with that car.

Frame rails, from rad support to rear subframe, floor pans, etc are all available as reproductions to buy. All you have to do is remove the old, weld in the new...

Be honest with yourself also about the time to complete the project as well. Planning on driving it this year? Got a full time job? Going to school? Family? Virtually every parts car I get is the result of a project that went on for too long that was eventually abandoned.

So my advise is much like what you heard actually. You have a LARGE rust repair challenge ahead of you, are you really prepared to take it on? That's what your friends and work comrades are really saying. Good luck with the project!

Edited June 12, 2013 by zKars

[77Datz]

I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to get my Z on the road, I'd like to do all this myself to save some money and gain the experience of doing a project like this. It's my first project car, I've had it for a few months and already did a lot to it. I'm more of an engine guy than a body guy, I've never done any bodywork on any car but I'm not afraid to try. It's an intimidating thing when i see all the rusty stuff under the car, but most of it looks like surface rust that I can clean up and fix. The small rot areas have me worried, would it be possible to cut the rust out of the frame rails and patch them with new metal? That was going to be my first option, before I go and spend almost $800 on new frame rails.

What type of welder is best for something like this?

[Diseazd]

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/open-zcar-discussion/25643-total-restoration-project-71-a-2.html

Check page 2 to see what can be done. My frame shop replaced the whole front driver side clip on the 71. You do need a competent frame shop to do it so everything lines up, but it can be done. Now is it worth it? That's why it's so important to pay up for a good chassis.

[er34gtt2000jp]

Or you can do it yourself with a little ingenuity a welder and a lot of patience

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/body-paint-s30/49186-rebuilding-my-71-a.html

[Patcon]

You need a decent MIG welder something with a 80-90% duty cycle for the first 2 or 3 heat settings with shielding gas. I have tried smaller cheaper welders before but they get too hot and the weld quality goes all "wobbly". That is probably the biggest thing you will need along with a large assortment of clamps, grinders, sanders, cut off tools etc. and hopefully somewhere dry to work heated is even better. I haven't done any full frame rails yet but I would think it will take 40 hours or more to get the metal work done, then epoxy primer at least. That will help with the rust. I have seen frame rails for $495 (Charlie Osbourne maybe??) but I don't know if they will fit your car or not. I have done a good bit or metal work on these cars and I believe front frame rails are probably the most intimidating, because if they are not done right they will affect tire wear and the safety of the car. Also many time the outside of the frame rail can look fine or minor surface rust but the inside of the rail with be all eaten up and the metal is much thinner than in 1976. If your car is a north east car look at all the places on the frame rails that are not water tight and imagine road salt getting down into those for the last 35 years. I tend to agree with others here. There is a lot more rust than you have found yet, even though I hate saying that.

C

[77Datz]

I stuck my phone under my car to get some pictures.

Here's where the sway bar mount meets the frame. I was thinking I could just make a patch for this

It's pretty much just hanging there

From directly underneath

Passenger side running rail, previous owner used bondo... I can't for the life of me figure out why.

I'm going to put the front end of the car up on some jackstands to get a better look at the damage. What do you guys think of it?

[Patcon]

Those rails are pretty bad. The area at the sway bar probably won't take much of a patch because for it to have a rusted a hole the metal had to get very thin so all the metal that is left is also very thin. So when you go to weld in your patch you will get lots of burn through and the patch will only be a string as the metal its welded to. You really need complete front rails and bad dog rails under the floors.

C

[jonathanrussell]

Just my opinion but there are simply too many good 280z chassis still available out there. If I were you, I would make your current car a parts car and go look for another solid 280z.....maybe one with mechanical issues that could be solved with the parts from your current car.

[77Datz]

It really kills me to have to use this car as a parts car, besides the frame the rest of the car is mint. But I guess if I got another 77 280Z with minimal rust I could use this one as my parts car. The car has a lot of meaning to me and I hate to have to get rid of it.

What would something like this cost to have fixed of I got new front frame rails?

[Patcon]

You are in an expensive part of the country for this kind of work. Shop rates here in SC are $50 an hour or so. I don't know about there. The parts are $700 or so at least and the I would think a good shop could do it in 40 hours or so. To be safe I would figure $3k. That is a WILD guess. The car would need to be very special to me for that. I have a 56 VW that my dad bought new in Germany, now that he is gone it is at the top of my collection and I will spare no expense to get it right. Does this car mean enough to you to justify that kind of expense?

1978 280z and 2002 5.3 engine

1975 Nissan 280Z

both of these could be candidates and I did a 10 second search on craiglist in Phoenix. All of the rubber will be bad on the cars from the heat, but the metal will be good. All the metal on your car is bad but the rubber is probably not. For less than $2000 (car + shipping) you could have either of those cars shipped to your door. That's a lot less than you can fix your car for. You have to decide how attached to your current car you are... Also you could by a car from the south west and get the body and interior right before you start moving parts over.

Charles

[77Datz]

It amazes me that completely rebuilding a car is cheaper than having my frame fixed, I don't think I'd be able to sleep at night if I had to send my Z to the junk yard. So for now I'm going to consider my options and think about what my next move will be. To completely rebuild a Z, the least thing I need is a garage big enough for two cars, and unfortunately that's something I simply don't have available to me. If anything I'd store the car for awhile, and wait until I have more time, money, and space.

Either way, I'm heartbroken