Cooling fans

[caltanian]

Looking to hang a new aluminum radiator and put two 10" fans on it, as it seems they are about as big as you can double up on.

I plan to put one on a thermal switch, turning on at 180, and the other manually controlled for when I am stuck in traffic, or running canyons, or a hot summer day.

Looking to see if anyone has input on this setup or has any ideas for me.

Thank you

[ZCurves]

I was thinking of doing this on my stock radiator. I have been looking at the big single fan setup from a Volvo s80 and deleting the mechanical fan.

[Mike W]

So I have been down a number of these paths WRT aluminum radiators as well as electric fans. I'll share with you what I have experienced. Bear in mind that I live in Texas and so the cooling expectations are fairly high given the extreme heat in the summer and so your requirements may not be as demanding.

Note: My car is a late 260Z and so the radiator is equivalent to the early 280.

Phase 1

I replaced my original OEM radiator and fan with an American Eagle 3 row aluminum radiator and single 16" electric fan. Pro's of this setup was that it was relatively inexpensive and provided reasonable cooling. The build quality of the radiator was low to poor. I had to straighten the mounting tabs and the finish on the ends was so poor that I ended up repainting them as well. Did not like the fan mounting mechanism at all. Plastic round tie wraps that went through the core of the radiator fins essentially held the fan in place. The earlier 240 / 260 models offered a shroud mounting mechanism for the fan, but I was not able to locate a similar setup for the late 260/280. So I lived with this tie wrap setup. To control the fan I used a relay based controller where the temp sensor was embedded into the fins of the radiator (similar to the tie wraps for the fan). The on temp was adjustable on the controller and that was handy, and it worked as expected, although I did not like the bulk of it or the way the temp sensor had to be installed.

Phase 2

So after living with the initial phase one install for some time, I decided to upgrade this system while I was in the process of a major engine / engine bay overhaul. The decision to do this was admittedly more for cosmetic reasons than cooling performance (although I was hoping to improve that as well). So I purchased a polished Champion 3 row radiator along with dual 11" generic fans. I say generic as there was no brand indicated on the fan, and as I learned later this is a very important factor. I also ditched the analog controller and went with a more capable unit from Dakota Digital. The build quality on this radiator was definitely better than the first and the mounting tabs did not need to be bent back into place in order to fit on the car. The polish was well done and so the outward appearance of the radiator was very good. Unfortunately the fan mounting mechanism was exactly the same as my first phase but now I was mounting 2 11" fans instead of 1 16" which required twice the number of "tie wraps" through the cooling fins. Still not liking this. The Dakota Digital controller is awesome. Instead of the sensor being embedded into the radiator, I purchased a threaded sensor that I attached into the engine block where a plug had been previously. Wired that into the Dakota and used a solid state relay to drive the fans, and it worked great. Also, everything about it is programmable. You can program on temp, off temp, how long the fans run after ignition is off, etc. If you are going the electric fan route, I highly recommend this controller. Unfortunately, the cooling performance was no better than my phase 1 attempt, and in fact may have been a little worse. Certainly not a problem at all in the cooler weather of Texas, but when I was in stop / go traffic in mid August, it just couldn't keep up. On to phase 3.

Phase 3

In attempting to develop a strategy on how I was going to address this cooling issue, I stumbled across a company that does a lot of custom radiator design, and from their website, they had one for a 280Z. Company was called Wizard Cooling and were located in upstate NY. Time to give them a call. These guys were awesome. Everything they build is made in the USA and they explained to me why their radiator design was superior to the 3/4 row radiators that had been broadly advertised. Had to do with the design of the core itself (which they did not manufacture themselves but purchased from another made in the USA company) as well as how they designed the overall radiator itself. I inquired about better ways to mount the fans and they told me they would do a custom design to support this requirement. Sent me drawings a day later, went back and forth on a few things, and then finalized the design. They also had a local partner company that would polish the product when it was done. Custom built to my car and my specs and it turned out awesome. They designed a separate mounting bracket that bolts to the radiator body and is easily removed. No more tie wraps through the core. Also decided to go with name brand fans and so went with 2 11" fans from Spal. Wizard apparently works very closely with Spal and so has all of their drawings. The mounting bracket they designed aligned perfectly with the Spal fans because of that.

All I can say about phase 3 is unbelievable. The workmanship of the radiator and mounting bracket is world class. Night and day with the Champion or the American Eagle. The fans are like a tornado. Speaks volumes for the Spal product. Even in the most intense Austin heat in the middle of the summer, I never went over about 185 degrees. And that was standing in traffic in 110 degree weather. The customer service from Wizard is also world class and they will work with you on an individual basis to get you what you want. I can't say enough about them. Cost. Well that's another story. The advantage of the cheaper aluminum alternatives is definitely price and the Wizard/Spal alternative is going to run 2-3X that. But if you never want to worry about overheating again and have an eye catching cooling system in your engine bay, you'll never go wrong with that alternative.

Hope this helps. Would be happy to post some before / after pics if anyone would find that useful.

Mike.

[caltanian]

I have ordered a 2 row aluminum radiator, and two 2 Spal 12" fans.

Would love to see some progress photos Mike W. Looking forward to having more cooling than I need.

[Stanley]

Have the MSA aluminum 3-row on my 240Z, also MSA carbon fiber shroud and oil cooler.

No electric fan. The shroud probably helps in stop and go traffic. Coolant temp stays about 180F in all conditions. Even on a long upgrade behind slow trucks on a hot day.

I pop the hood in those conditions to keep temp down in the engine bay, or any time the temp is over 110F.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Stanley

[CG240Z]

Good information. I am in the same boat and am about to tackle this project.

[GV Z Car]

Mike, thank you for the information on Wizard. Jumped on their web site, very informative.

[Mike W]

So I've received a number of requests for some pictures, so here goes.

First some from the phase 1 attempt. Pay particular attention to the welds as well as the small brackets down the passenger side of the radiator, which I figured was to hold an overflow tube in place. Unfortunately I do not have a picture of the controller that I used, but I believe that it was from Painless Performance. Worked well and had an adjustable turn on control, but just didn't like the way the temp sensor attached through the fins of the radiator.

OK. Next ones are from phase 2. I made this change when I was in the middle of an engine / body overhaul so it was a good time to do it. This one was a polished Champion, but I also believe that both Champion as well as American Eagle (first phase) are from the same company and are all made in Asia. This one has a slightly better build quality and certainly the polish makes it look better, but I can tell you for sure that the cooling capacity was no better than the phase one install. Also notice that I went to dual generic fans which I was hoping would cool better than the single 16" I used in phase 1 just given the amount of surface area covered, but no dice. I don't have a picture of the Dakota controller, but I ended up mounting it my glove box so the display would be accessible while in the car (for troubleshooting purposes and to keep it out of the heat of the engine bay). However, the last picture shows on the engine block where I removed a plug towards the back of the block near the firewall and replaced it with a temp sensor that is actually in the water jacket. This made for a nice clean install with no more probes through my radiator.

On to phase 3 and Wizard. So as I mentioned earlier, I just stumbled on this company and actually found a part for a 280Z. Proceeded to call them and believe that I spoke to one of their engineers named Tom. He proceeded to tell me about why their radiators were superior to the cheaper ones from Asia and that they could easily do custom work as well, including polishing. When I explained some of the things I wanted change from my current setup, he even told me that the "tie wrap" mounting approach for fans actually voids the warranty on their radiators. The last picture is the final drawing (open it as PDF) I received from Wizard before they began work. It shows their attention to engineering detail as well as their focus on customer satisfaction. Notice the welds and how uniform they are. Notice the custom bracket they designed for my fans (and polished as well). Also notice the Spal fans (which are actually from Be Cool, but they only use fans from Spal). These things are like turbines when they turn on, noticeably more powerful than the generic ones these replaced. Finally, notice the brackets that I requested be attached down the side for my overflow tube. The unit is a piece of art and it cools like you can't believe. I can be in stopped traffic in 105 degree weather, will hear the fans kick in and will actually watch the temp come down. Anyway, judge for yourself.

M Wodopian 260z(drawing) (3).pdf

Hope this helps anyone looking at a cooling upgrade. If you have other questions, just let me know.

Mike.

[ZXR616]

Did this mod to my 280ZX a couple years ago. Bought the shroud mounted fans on EBay. I lucked out and everything worked great.

The fans are mounted on a stock (albeit heavy duty) radiator.

[ninjazombiemaster]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68303[/ATTACH]

Hope this helps anyone looking at a cooling upgrade. If you have other questions, just let me know.

Mike.

That is a might fine engine bay.

[grannyknot]

Mine is a low dollar version, $10 for 14ga aluminum sheet, $20 for a A/C fan from a 1996 Ford Taurus (available after market for a very reasonable price if you want new) and a $110 for the Dakota controller that Mike mentioned. The Dakota unit cost more than I wanted to spend but as mentioned, you just can't beat it for adjustability. Mike, beautiful engine bay!

[chaztg]

I can't add much more to Mike W's story, but I also have some experience with the 'lectric fan thing and aluminum radiators too. I've gone through a few "phases" myself with my 73 240. A few years ago I bit the bullet and bought a Wizard Cooling 3 row aluminum radiator new off eBay direct from the company. I cannot agree more with Mike W about the design, fit, quality, etc... The downside of my experience was that the radiator began to leak after less than a year. I contacted the company and spoke to probably the same guy Mike spoke with. Long-short, he made it right; they sealed the radiator with some kind of epoxy which to my genuine surprise has held up nicely. The thing that rubbed me the wrong way was that they made me pay for shipping to send it from San Diego to New York for the repair. I recollect I spent $300+ on the initial purchase, so I was irked. My car's always run kinda hot, I don't why; maybe it's an inaccurate gauge, maybe it's all in my head--I didn't see much improvement over stock using this all aluminum unit. I've done a lot of research into the topic and experimented with different radiators over the years. I use VDO temp and oil gauges and I feel they are calibrated quite accurately, at least more accurate than the stock gauges. I don't feel the need to upgrade any more than I already have Radiator-wise and in my experience, there is no reason to use larger than a 3-row core radiator. I've even thought that a 2-row core radiator could be the answer to my car's issues...modern high efficiency radiators are mostly 2-row but are generally larger than able to fit into an S30, but who knows...? In the meantime, I've moved onto the active part of the cooling system: the fans. With the Wizard radiator the temperature would still climb above 195 degrees in traffic on warm days or coming off the highway it would heat up in a similar fashion. I'd been running a 14" auxiliary electric "pusher" fan (Hayden) with a manual switch for a while--that was my solution for the heat-up and it worked okay in those times when the car needed it. I thought making it automatic would be nifty, so I added a Hayden controller I bought from Summit. It was the kind where the sensor threads into the thermostat housing, not a probe inserted in the radiator fins (not my personal preference). I liked the set-up so well that I removed the mechanical fan and went all electric, for a while...and it worked well until it just, uh didn't work...at all...it just went Kaput! (Made in China). This made me begin searching far & wide for another different controller. I can't recall if I came across Dakota Digital, but my criteria for a fan controller was that it had to have a threaded sensor, be of relatively good build quality and hopefully not Chinese junk, small in size, have an adjustable temp range and be reasonably priced. I think I passed over Painless and other brands because they were just too much money. The thing that made me reluctant to purchase another Hayden controller was that I had deleted the mechanical fan and turned my pusher fan around into a puller & went exclusively electric so when the controller unit failed, it made me nervous to have only one fan. SO I reverted to the stock setup and put the mechanical plastic OEM fan back in place with a one-piece metal shroud (kind of a rare part to find nowadays) and added two 10 inch pusher fans, one SPAL and one no-name eBay thing which seems to work okay but is obviously of lesser quality than the Spal fan...I agree with the opinion that Spal is a top-quality brand. I would also be happy with "Perma Cool" or Hayden in that order. I was still dubious about buying another Hayden controller, but I did anyway just because I was familiar with it and the other one did work for a few years until it quit and it's reasonably priced. Anyway, the 2 pusher fans are the now back up to augment the always-spinning mechanical fan. Pusher fans aren't as efficient as puller fans...if you doubt this then look up Griffin and they have a great tech section on their website and it explains a lot of the pros and cons of mechanical vs. electric cooling, pusher vs. puller, etc.... I think at some point it just comes down to personal preference and basic need. Unfortunately, there just isn't any room to fit a reasonably sized electric puller fan or fans AND a mechanical stock fan (unless your Z has a V8 engine !-- HA ha). My other Z, a 1975 280Z with an unmodified 2.8 litre motor runs with a happy & stable temperature all the time, doesn't vary much between 180-185 degrees, maybe a tad more on hotter days.