Very Cool Ignition Upgrade

[zKars]

Ed, glad to be of service. I love a good mechanical mystery. Having a bunch of spare parts has come in very handy in many such instances. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

The only other suggestion to make the install process easier for customers might be to clock the drive adapter differently so that it matches the stock position of the drive spindle. Plug #1 is now 60 or 70 degrees clockwise of where it sits "Stock". This forces the user to reposition plug wires which may leave some too long or too short and since the cap is so much smaller, there is less room for plug wire weaving games. I did mine like Grannyknot in post #36. You could also choose to laboriously move the drive spindle which means dropping the front sway bar also and dropping the oil pump. Messy and not for everyone. Move it one plug position CCW (looking from the top) and it would be just fine. Next batch, eh?

There are also no less than at least three different distributor bases on various s30 engines, each with their own position of the hold down bolt. This in turn affects where the new clamp plate is located, which could bring up access problems to get the allan wrench on that clamp bolt. I have the zx E12-80 base on my engine, and position and access were good. Don't forget you can flip that new clamp plate over and point the bolt a different direction if you need to.

Since you'd probably like to plug in the USB cable at some point to play with maps, think about where that port is located when you're done and how you'll access it. Remember too if you're driving and tuning with the cable in, there is no moisture seal around the plug. Don't tune in the rain or pack some chewing gum around the plug Hmmm, Juicy Fruit...

Reading back to comment from mDec about actual verses map timing mismatch, I found that I have a near perfect match between the advance map and what my timing light shows on the damper. I did set mechanical TDC very carefully and set the little green light to "just" come on with CW torque on the rotor as suggested, during initial dizzy positioning. I suspect small errors here translate in larger problems with the real verses map.

[123ignitionusa]

Here are a couple of videos from DAC House in Japan of the "Z" at the drags. They use the 123ignition and no doubt a few other tricks. enjoy...

Edited June 23, 2014 by 123ignitionusa

[mdec]

Can anyone describe/post (.jpg ?) a typical oem Z vacuum advance curve. I have heard that high compression L6 engines typically run better with lower initial mech advance with much higher (than stock) vacuum adv ?

[jmhtx]

Any long term experiences with the 123ignition system?

 

Considering an upgrade to my stock distributor for my '71 L24 in preparation for an Datsun Spirit L28 engine.  

[grannyknot]

Any long term experiences with the 123ignition system?

 

Considering an upgrade to my stock distributor for my '71 L24 in preparation for an Datsun Spirit L28 engine.  

I don't know about long term but I've driven with mine for a season and a half, 2000 kms and it has performed flawlessly.

[zKars]

I've had about 10,000 km on mine now with narry a missed beat. Just love this thing! Nothing like programmable and new. Maybe the best part is being able to have 5 deg advance for easy starting then immediately having 15 for idle that my triples love. Or being able to switch to a higher initial advance with the AC on the bump up the idle speed...

[jmhtx]

Just purchased one today.  I'll post once I get it in and dialed in.  

[zKars]

Have some feedback after another road trip with a BIG problem. We are at something like 20,000 km now, and had a problem with the distributor cap. The center carbon contact inside the cap is gone/worn right off.

Old in first, replacement cap next. Contact tip is nearly 1/4 inch long

The problem manifested itself as worsening and then very hard hot hard start. Discovered the coil spark was weak and initially replaced the coil as likely culprit. Eventually as things went from bad to worse, discovered the worn out cap center contact.

No blame here, no idea why this cap should be worn out at 20K km, but I didn't expect that at this early age. Everyone check your caps! Replacement is any 6 cylinder late 60/early 70 german like Porsche, BMW or Mercedes. Bosch 03014 is one option. They also list parts here:

http://www.123ignitionusa.com/four-4-and-six-6-cylinder.html

More details about what transpired as trouble shooting progressed.

As we were on a road trip, I had a spare coil, but it was only a 0.8 ohm primary type, 123 clearly specs a nothing less then a 1 ohm coil with clear warmings about reduced life if not, but that's what we had so used it. Started better, but after 400 km, found a MSD coil with a ballast resistor and installed that. Started ok, so carried on. After 1500 km (away from home in remote location, Tofino BC), and three days of rest, went to restart and it did initially then died after 5 min warm up. No restart. No spark.

This is when the bad cap was discovered. A new cap was miraculouly found in Port Alberni (thanks Ed for parts ID by helping my friend Pat who went on a parts hunt). Unfortunately the new cap did not fix the problem. The car started but after warmup, ignition went to intermittent on/off status rendering the car undrivable. This indicated a problem with the dizzy internals. Not good.

Forntunately I travel with spare parts and had an old E12-80 ZX dizzy to swap in. That got me home without further incident.

Seems my short term low ohm coil use, bad cap, and eventual maybe not quite enough ohm total ballast resistor, and the related "temporary" wiring did in the 123 dizzy. Beware all yee who dare run non-3 ohm coils.

I'll report back after the dizzy issue is fully diagnosed by putting it back in at home with proper wiring and doing some hot testing to see if it will fail now. If so, then back to 123 for service I guess. I'm sure Ed will take care of it and let us know what the problem was and how to prevent it in future.

Edited September 21, 2015 by zKars

[Chickenman]

Tofino!! Small world. I was vacationing there on Sept 12th to 14th. When were you there and where did you stay? I was at the Duffin Cove Resort. Lovely little bed and breakfast right on the Ocean. Weather was beautiful. 25 to 27 C on Saturday and Sunday. Just got back from the Island yesterday.

 

Nice little drive isn't it Jim?

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

Regarding the disintegrating center button. I've seen this happen before on various ignitions with very strong Ignition boxes ( CDI ) and/or stronger coils. The center button is carbon and may have too much resistance. This causes it to overheat and either melt the distributor cap, or the carbon button starts to flake apart. Once the flaking starts, then you get arcing and it's bye bye carbon button.

 

This is a common problem with GM HEI ignitions that have had stronger coils installed. The solution is to replace the center Carbon button with a low resistance Bronze button. It just so happens that MSD makes these for HEI dizzy caps and with a bit of machining could be made to fit stock Datsun, Bosch or Mallory caps ( MSD 8412 ). Mallory may even have a low resistance button.

 

A local Z member had this exact problem on a aftermarket cap with a too soft carbon button. I've actually melted GM HEI caps around the button holder with Crane PS91 coils when I forgot to switch in the low resistance MSD button. That's how hot the carbon button got.

 

Here's a link to the MSD part. BTW, Jim ... Lordco can get them.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/msd-8412/overview/

 

Edit: Must remember to do this when I switch over to my Haltech setup this winter.Will be running a Crane Hi-6 CDI box with a 280ZX Turbo Dizzy. Probably will need the bronze button.

 

.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chickenman

[zKars]

You were in Tofino?!?!?! We were there 14-17th, Stayed at Middle Beach. Been going there for years. Love the drive, but the place is getting too popular, too much traffic! We had 4 Z's of various years out and one sad guy in a STI.... Could be worse....

Very good info on the button fagility with higher voltage systems. At one point I was using a brass crimp bullet connector to attempt a reconstruction of the button. Was working for a while, but the contact with the top of the rotor wasn't smooth, and it was digging in.... I'll see if we can adapt that MSD button to the Bosch coil. Wish we had Lordco in Alberta.

Edited September 22, 2015 by zKars

[Chickenman]

Mopac usually stocks them as well. Do you still have a Mopac in Calgary?