Zed in other languages

[Zedrally]

This morning I was thinking about badging, why, don't ask it was just a fleeting moment.....more particularly about the way 240's where badged around the world.

We all know that the 240 was known as a Fairlady in Japan, but was it actually badged in English as Fairlady or was it in Japanese characters?

If so the what is the calligraphy for this or if it wasn't can someone [Kats or Alan maybe] post 240Z in Japanese.

[That Ozzy Guy]

Speaking of badges, does anyone know if the new 350Z side badge will fit on a 240? You know the one I'm talking about, front quarter panel, black background with a silver Z. Looks really nice inho.

Sorry to ask in here Mike but I didn't think it warranted a new thread.

Cheers.

[HS30-H]

Hi Mike,

How are you?

We'll have to be careful here - don't want to start that old "Zed or Zee" debate up again.................

All badging / emblems on the Japanese-market cars were in 'Roman' and 'Arabic' ( that'll confuse Dubya... ) - that is to say, the "Fairlady" name was written in the Romanised English alphabet, and the numbers ( 240 and 432 ) were written in the Arabic numerals that we all use. Remember - that was what was on the cars. What they used on all their advertising and literature was a mixture of the Roman and Arabic, with a bit of Japanese mixed in...............

The modern Japanese language is written in a combination of three alphabetic systems. 'Kanji' is the ancient and very complicated lettering system derived from Chinese ( some characters read the same in Japanese as they do in Chinese ). In order to slightly simplify the reading and writing of Kanji characters ( some of which have multiple meanings depending on context ) another alphabetic system was created. This is called 'Hiragana'. Finally, in more recent times, a phonetic alphabet was created - called 'Katakana'. This was necessary because after Japan re-opened its borders to international trade - after many decades of self-imposed isolation - it was found necessary to have a way of writing and reading western words that were coming into use through trade and cultural exchange. The situation now, after a couple of centuries, is that all three systems of Kanji, Hiragana and Katakana are in use. All three are mixed together.

For the "Fairlady" name on their advertising and literature, Nissan used both the Roman English and Katakana versions of writing. Almost all Japanese people can 'read' Romanised English ( which they call 'Romaji' ) but they might not necessarily know what it means. For us English speakers this is a bit like seeing something written in, for example, German. We might be able to read the German phrase "Vorsprung durch Technic", but unless we have an even basic knowledge of German we would not necessarily know what it actually means ( unless you drive an Audi.... ).

So - you sometimes see the "Fairlady" name written in 'English', as well as in Katakana. You will also sometimes see the 'Nissan' company name written in Hiragana, as well as Kanji. Because 'Nissan' is derived from two Kanji characters, it is possible to write it in all three Japanese alphabets - although it is most commonly seen in Hiragana or English. It is not possible to write 'Fairlady' in Kanji or Hiragana - so Katakana or English are used.

There's a caveat to all this though. Its very frustrating, but the Katakana system of phonetic characters has a ( naturally ) very strong Japanese accent. Amongst other things, its very difficult to make an "L" sound in Katakana. That's why when I write my name in Katakana it actually gets forced into three characters and three syllables. It comes out as "A-re-n" - so Japanese speakers will consistently mispronounce my name because its most unnatural to write it any other way. Thats why Fairlady tends to sound something like "Fay-ur-ray-dee" in spoken Japanese............

The Romanised English letter 'Z' in Japanese is usually pronounced in two syllables. It sounds like "Ze-to" or "Ze-do" ( but with short "Z", like in Zephyr or Xylophone ) - more like the 'English' English pronunciation than anything else. This depends on the regional accent of course ( sometimes Japanese regional accents are quite different ).

As far as numbers go, its another can of worms. Suffice to say that the Arabic numeric system is now widely used, but both Kanji and Hiragana methods of writing numbers exist. When it comes to pronunciation in Japanese, the number '240' in relation to the Z car is usually pronounced as individual numbers ( like 'two four zero' rather than 'two forty' or 'two hundred and forty' ) - and sounds like "Nee-yon-maru". Of course, for the Japanese the 240 is just one version of the S30-series Z car ( which they call the "Ess san-maru" ) as is the 432 ( "Yon-san-nee" ).

All this talk of language and pronunciation reminds me that the "Fairlady" name itself is the product of a misunderstanding or mispronunciation. I'm not sure whether Mr Kawamata ( the man who christened the Fairlady ) realised it or not, but the name of the musical "My Fair Lady" - itself based on the book "Pygmalion" by George Bernard Shaw - was actually a pun. The story is of a linguist who is challenged by his colleagues to turn a lowly Cockney flower-seller into a "Mayfair Lady" ( the Mayfair district of London being the epitome of 'Uptown' in contrast to the East-End's 'Downtown' status ). The pun comes from the Cockney pronunciation of Mayfair as 'My-fair", and hence the name of the musical "My Fair Lady". Geddit? Oh well - it would have been at least half funny 100 years ago.

Here's a couple of illustrations of the Japanese way of writing "Fairlady". The first one is in a very stylised forward-slanting font ( don't forget that Kanji, Hiragana and Katakana can be stylised with font and typefaces just like any other language ) and is from a 1971 Japanese factory manual. It reads "Nissan" and then "Fairlady Z. 240Z".

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

And here's the most commonly used 'Romaji' font of Fairlady in the early days. This one's from a Japanese-market sales catalogue that was issued in October 1971.

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Just in case anybody's not seen the Japanese-market badging / emblems - here's what the "Fairlady" script looks like on the back of one of my cars.

Alan T.

[Zedrally]

Thanks Alan,

Strange I think that they Used "Japanese Characters" in any publications [like the first download], and then went into script for the final badge, assuming I've read your reply correctly!

Now, could you oblige with Datsun 240Z and Datsun 260z in Japanese?

TIA

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Zedrally

Thanks Alan,

Strange I think that they Used "Japanese Characters" in any publications [like the first download], and then went into script for the final badge, assuming I've read your reply correctly!

Now, could you oblige with Datsun 240Z and Datsun 260z in Japanese?

TIA

Egads Mike,

What I meant was that they used both concurrently ( at the same time ) - with BOTH being 'readable' to the Japanese it was basically just a question of style. They just never BADGED the cars in Japanese characters, as its pretty much been traditional to badge vehicles, trains and even buildings in 'Romaji" for style purposes over the last half century or more.

Naturally, it would make sense for them to make a lot of their literature in Japanese ( a mixture of all three Japanese alphabets with some 'Romaji' mixed in ) just so that people could read it. However - headlines, headings and large banner emblems could be in 'Romaji' for style purposes.

The very old styles of Japanese numbering are usually only seen on things like restaurant menus and the like these days.

I'm getting too wordy rappinghood again. Suffice to say that they have usually used Romaji for badging the cars, and a mixture of Japanese and Romanised English lettering / Arabic numerals for the literature and other stuff ................

The "Datsun" name was not usually used in relation to any of the Z cars in the Japanese market. Mentioning the "Datsun 240Z" or "Datsun 260Z" would usually signify an export-market car to the Japanese.

Pronunciation of 'Datsun' in Japanese would be something approaching "Datto-san" ( say it quickly ) and of course, as mentioned before '240Z' would be "Nee-yon-maru Ze-to" ( with that soft "zeh" sound rather than "zee" ) and '260z" would be "Nee-roku-maru". '280' wpuld be "Nee-hachi-maru".

Interestingly, I started to hear people referring to the new Fairlady Z ( Z33 ) as a "Ze-to san-san" last time I was there ( and I suppose they will be calling the Export version the "Ze-to san-go-maru" too..................

Do you mean you want me to dig out and scan up some "Datsun" logos in Japanese characters for you? It'll have to wait a bit, as its 2am here in London and I'm losing consciousness.

Night all,

Alan T.

[Zedrally]

Have a night cap and go to bed.

We can worry about it tomorrow!

[z4life92]

all your cars suck mine is way better and it will have a blower soon to blow you away on the street 74' 4 life

[That Ozzy Guy]

wow. can you be more of a moron?

[ChrisB77]

Easy Ozzy. He's just trollin'. 3 posts and this is the best one yet:laugh:

[That Ozzy Guy]

aye i did check his other two. still don't make him less of a moron.