Modern injectors, new fuel rail - no heat soak problem

[HusseinHolland]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

Here's a link to a table I had found a while ago.  The original web page seems down but the table exists in various forms.  028-150-105 seems to be the standard Bosch original form replacement for the Nissan analog.  In those early days they gave different part numbers based on hose length.  I think that up to -112 are the same basic injector.

It downloads a pdf file.  Those 712's are high impedance.  You'll want to remove the dropping resistors, I'd guess.  Although I ran high impedance on my engine and they worked fine either way.  Looks like you might be a hair rich with those.  Good luck.

Thanks for the reminder on the injector ballast packs. -I forgot about those . It started & runs just fine with them in place - however they must be operating on lower than intended voltage with the ballast in place - not sure what that does to volume or duty cycle, if anything. I'll plan on removing them. 

I have a similar pdf I downloaded years ago from "Motor Man" - the only trouble with any of those is they don't give flow under varying base pressure, since 3 bar is the current standard. I used an online calc to get the screenshot I added. The AFR's are good as is - 14.7 at idle. I'll see how it actually drives tomorrow. I can always dial back the ECT resistance value if it does turn out to be richer than before, where I had the reverse problem of being too lean across the board. The new old style injectors I removed have no part numbers, so I have no clue what the OP's mechanic actually installed when they also did the harness hack job the car came with.

The post I found a while back from chickenman had stated the stock injector rate @ 188cc @ 2.5bar, not 3. Which would suggest they are not 105's, if those are 18.1 lb'hr @ 3bar

Edited November 14, 2023 by HusseinHolland

[Captain Obvious]

Well I guess at the end of the day, your wideband would be the best determination of whether those injectors are appropriate. I'm interested because there's a local to me Z guy who is dealing with some injector issues. I've been thinking about just jettisoning the whole stock system like you have and moving to something different.

I remember reading somewhere (hoovered) that the flow rate can be considered relatively linear with respect to fuel pressure. At least within a range close to the rated flow. So if something flows "X" at "Y", it should flow 0.83X at 0.83Y.

Do you know what GM vehicles used those injectors you have there?

[SteveJ]

54 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Well I guess at the end of the day, your wideband would be the best determination of whether those injectors are appropriate. I'm interested because there's a local to me Z guy who is dealing with some injector issues. I've been thinking about just jettisoning the whole stock system like you have and moving to something different.

I remember reading somewhere (hoovered) that the flow rate can be considered relatively linear with respect to fuel pressure. At least within a range close to the rated flow. So if something flows "X" at "Y", it should flow 0.83X at 0.83Y.

Do you know what GM vehicles used those injectors you have there?

I did a search on RockAuto for the part number @HusseinHolland provided. A Walker fuel injector crossed with that part number. Here is the applications list they had for the Walker part.

Now given that the Catera was developed from an Opel, I don't know how much carried over from the Opel powertrain.

[SteveJ]

And if you're REALLY daring, you can pick up a set of 6 fine Chinesium knock-offs for the price of one Walker injector.

https://www.amazon.com/YOMTOVM-Injector-0280155712-Compatible-Cadillac/dp/B0CN431KFK

Anybody up for a car-b-que?

Anyway, searching for the Bosch part number on Amazon shows a lot of refurbs and clones.

[Zed Head]

Here is a GM injector I ID'ed in the past as possible.  I pulled the data from various sources and stuck it in a spreadsheet.  I got a new computer and Microsoft is holding the spreadsheet functions hostage so all I can do is an image for now.

A person really needs an adjustable regulator to get things dialed in.  Since you have to lean things out.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1989,electra,3.8l+231cid+v6,1017414,fuel+&+air,fuel+injector,6224

 

[Zed Head]

I've mentioned this before also, somewhere.  You can take an old Bosch/VW/Porsche adjustable regulator and drill a hole through the center of the adjusting screw to add a vacuum reference hose.  There was an old VW dune buggy article about it on the web.

Notice the 001 number.  Might be the first adjustable from Bosch as they got in to L-Jet.  Still available.  Spendy, unless eBay.  It holds pressure too.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/0280160001.htm?pn=0-280-160-001-INT

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115896285815?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=JXCBKhvJSD2&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=bBzFtXzvTQO&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

[Zed Head]

Just noticed that Volvo used it also.  A spreadsheet image.

[siteunseen]

You all probably have seen this but maybe not?

Go to the bottom to the "flow rate injector list"

https://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/injectors/index.html

There was a write up using Supra injectors long ago but I can't find it now.

Edited November 14, 2023 by siteunseen

[HusseinHolland]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:36 AM, Captain Obvious said:

Well I guess at the end of the day, your wideband would be the best determination of whether those injectors are appropriate. I'm interested because there's a local to me Z guy who is dealing with some injector issues. I've been thinking about just jettisoning the whole stock system like you have and moving to something different.

I remember reading somewhere (hoovered) that the flow rate can be considered relatively linear with respect to fuel pressure. At least within a range close to the rated flow. So if something flows "X" at "Y", it should flow 0.83X at 0.83Y.

Do you know what GM vehicles used those injectors you have there?

 

On 11/14/2023 at 10:40 AM, SteveJ said:

And if you're REALLY daring, you can pick up a set of 6 fine Chinesium knock-offs for the price of one Walker injector.

https://www.amazon.com/YOMTOVM-Injector-0280155712-Compatible-Cadillac/dp/B0CN431KFK

Anybody up for a car-b-que?

Anyway, searching for the Bosch part number on Amazon shows a lot of refurbs and clones.

I used the injector flow chart to search for injectors in the 200cc range, then searched for the Bosch number, rather than searching by a model.

Volvo also used 0280155746, which is a 19lb/hr flow rate.

I bought the 0280155712's from Precision Auto Injectors ($144 for the set, incl. $25 core charge)- they are reman, however they have a lifetime warranty.

I have also bought Bosch reman's from a company off eBay, and they also give a lifetime warranty (which I used after buying a set for a Volvo, then not using them for 5 years) but they didn't have either of the above.

Car is running really well & starting well, with the HEI and the new injector & rail setup. Volvo 3bar regulator. Just a reminder that I also have the Pot. setup on the ECT circuit, set about 900ohms richer than the factory value at any given temp. I used that to dial in 14.7 at warm idle.

Tried to get a pic with the WBO2 reading 14.7 cruising - you'll have to take my word for it 🙂

One of the ORB-8 to 6AN adaptors provided with the rail wouldn't seal in the AN line fitting, I had gas seepage. Swapped it out for the other one they provided & it's all good

Working on the heat shield template

Edited November 15, 2023 by HusseinHolland
add pics

[Patcon]

Will be interesting to see if your heat soak is better...

[HusseinHolland]

14 minutes ago, Patcon said:

Will be interesting to see if your heat soak is better...

Yes - I haven't experienced it today, but I didn't drive it under the conditions that previously instigated the heat soak. See what happens over the next couple days. I'm going to make the additional heat shield anyway.

[HusseinHolland]

9 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Here is a GM injector I ID'ed in the past as possible.  I pulled the data from various sources and stuck it in a spreadsheet.  I got a new computer and Microsoft is holding the spreadsheet functions hostage so all I can do is an image for now.

A person really needs an adjustable regulator to get things dialed in.  Since you have to lean things out.

I'm actually running the system setup at higher fuel pressure (3bar, w/vacuum reference), and higher ECT values (900ohm increase) to get it richer - with stock pressure & injectors my system was markedly lean - noted once I had the WBO2 in place to monitor AFR's.

Edited November 15, 2023 by HusseinHolland