Car statred running bad suddenly

[mgood]

OK folks, here is what I did on the 4th.

I got the car to use the fuel pump and I pumped 4 gallons of gas out the the car through a clear hose in to a 5 gallon can. The gas was a clear as if I had just pumped in form a gas station. So I went ahead and put on the old gas filter to see what would happen. The thing started right up and I let it set in the drive for 20 minutes running so it would warm up. The temp was up to normal and the oil pressure was normal. So I went for a very short ride, I got about 200 yards and the car started the same thing as I originally posted. I coasted to a stop and tried to start it and it started right up and then died again. I waited around 4 minutes and was going to have a couple of guys help push the car back to the garage so I tried it again and is started. I got it back in the drive and it was running like normal.

So I ventured out again and met a friend on the street and took them for a ride, this time with some 5K rpm accelerations and not a miss or hesitation, we went for a good 5 to 7 minutes and about a mile on up and down some hill.

I know the car is getting gas because when trying to restart it I can smell gas as the car

I did not check the plugs to see how they were, I might do that tomorrow, I want to go to a car show tomorrow morning and it's about 10 miles form the house so I am kind of hesitant.

[Zed Head]

Could be something simple like a plastic bag in the fuel tank. Floats around until it hits the outlet to the pump, gets sucked over by the flow, kills the engine, then floats away when the pump turns off.

It would be good to know fuel pressure when the problem happens. Get a gauge, and use zip ties to hold it where you can see it while driving with the hood partially open. If you have full fuel pressure when the engine dies you can stop looking at fuel supply and start looking at other areas.

Edit - I overlooked the part about smelling gas. Knowing fuel pressure is still important, but the sudden dying, then restarting, with a gassy smell is what my 1978 ECU did when it died. I had a 78 parts car in the garage that I could start and let idle until it was warmed up with no problems. One day I put the 78 ECU in my 76 driver just to verify that it was a good spare, drove about one mile and it coughed once, then died. It restarted, went about 1/4 mile and died again. It did the same about two more times until I decided to run home and get the other ECU. Reinstalled it and drove home with no problems.

Just a possibility. It's not common but it does happen. Eventually, just to see if I could, I replaced the two main transistors in the ECU and it worked correctly. I think that the transistors can go bad just like they do in the ignition modules, causing extra activity on the circuit. Too many sparks for ignition, too many injections for the ECU.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Zed Head
Left a sentence out

[240260280z]

fouled plugs and still running rich? Check your electrical connections and clean... it can hurt nothing: http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/electricalconnections/index.html

[siteunseen]

If your fuel filter up front had rusty gas in it I'd imagine the cone shaped one in the fuel pump inlet port is in need of cleaning. Could the coil be failing? You should look and see if there's an oily look anywhere around it, test it somehow, I don't know the procedure though, sorry. If you have had the same plugs for 10 years you should be nice to your baby and get new ones. I'd get a new rotor button and cap too, small $$ for such a nice car.

[FastWoman]

Two possibilities come to mind:

(1) There's a lot of rust in your tank. When you drive, gasoline sloshes around, and the rust gets stirred up. It then gets sucked up against the pickup screen, clogging it. When your fuel pump stops, and there is no more suction, the debris falls back to the bottom of the tank, and you can start the car again.

(2) You've got a vibration-related electrical fault somewhere. When you hit a bump or twist or sway just right, a contact is broken, causing the engine to falter or die.

[EuroDat]

Reading through this thread, I see some similar problems I had a couple of months back. I had bad fuel, lots of water in the filter and about two liters of water in the tank.

After cleaning it all out, draining the and and a new fuel filter the engine ran normal again. When I took it for a drive I was lucky to limp back home with the engine coughing and backfiring. Went through the EFI bible test and found poor soldering on the aftermarket injector connectors and some minor things. It still would not run right once it warmed up. It was great cold, but once it warmed up bang it started again. The tacho was bouncing a little, but didn't seem enough to be the ignition module and it checked out ok. I thought it was due to the lurching forward and stallingof the engine.

To eliminate the ignition I changed to a HEI Module and the engine has ran perfectly ever since. Im now in theprocess of fitting the HEI module into the old casing to keep the original look.

It might not be your problem, but it threw me off, because of the bad fuel I had. The ignition unit played up fierce when it was hot. They are all getting older and prone to failure.

Good luck with your problem solving.

Chas

Edited July 6, 2014 by EuroDat

[mgood]

Well I went to the car show today and did not have one problem to or from the show. I drove about 8 to 9 miles way. The temp at 9:30 this morning was around 73 degrees and the temp on the way home at 4pm was around 80 degrees with a very light rain.

The ride both ways was very nerve racking just waiting for something to happen.

I am still going to change the gas filter when I get it. I am probably going to get a HEI Module, new spark plugs, rotor and cap and the coil.

I do need some help on the coil and HEI module, where to get them and which ones, the car is a 11/75 build. The spark plugs I think should be BP6ES.

Thanks for all the help.

[siteunseen]

I put a remanufactured ZX distributor and a Crane PS 20 coil on my '72 240. It made a world of difference. Arne suggested the PS 20 and I'm glad he did, it's the 1.4 OHM and that's perfect for the electronic ignition module E12-80 on the ZX dizzy which is what the HEI is. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/parts-swapping-s30/52372-best-coil-e12-80-dizzy.html

Amazon.com: Crane Cams 730-0020 PS20 Performance Coil: Automotive

If you go with the ZX style ignition the proper plugs are BPR6ES-11, wider gap for stronger spark.

[mgood]

Here is the latest on my car problems.

I went to a car show two weeks ago that was about 10 miles from my home and the car ran great, not one problem and I did not do anything to the car. I even put the old fuel filter back on the car. So I am still a a loss as to the original problem.

Last weekend I put on the new fuel filter and a fuel pressure gage that I got from Jegs. The car idles at around 28 lbs. and the pressure does go up when you hit the gas but go back down to around that same area.

Also I checked the spark plugs after the drive back from the car show and I attached the picture of them. #6 is at the left and #1 is at the right. They are kind of black and grey.

Thoughts and one.

Thanks Michael

[SteveJ]

Those plugs look pretty good to me. I can't recall, what do the fuel injection bible & FSM say about the fuel pressure range?

[EuroDat]

Hi Michael,

Is the engine still playing up or are you trying to find what could have caused your problems? I can understand the bad feeling about a problem that cued itself, but could come back anytime and WHEN???

Your pressure is reading about right for idle. Consider these gauges are not all that accurate, give or take 5%. Do a full pressure test by disconnecting the vacuum hose to the FPR. The pressure should increase to 36psi.

Here is the tests I did on mine a couple of months back when I had bad fuel and a dodgy TIU.

Chas

[bhermes]

I have the same problem and have had for 3 years. I dropped the tank and had tons of rust. Cleaned and coated. Repalced fuel filter and some fuel lines at the tank. Replaced fuel pump but before the tank was dropped. Car would run fine for 50 miles and then on other trips of 10 miles act up. I have not been able to solve at this point. I posted another thread before seeing this one.

I am guessing a screen is clogged or getting clogged but not sure. Going to do some more fuel pressure checks but unluckily evertime I have the gauge out where I can see it the problem does not happen.

If you still have the problem post again and if I find anything out I will comment on thread.