Road to my first Z, looking to avoid potholes

[IceWilly]

Hello all. First off, let me say I had a lengthy post typed out a few weeks ago, but the website didn't have me logged in and of course during the process of logging in it cleared all my text. Lame. Trying this again now...

I am 30 y/o enthusiast who has been wrenching and learning on my 2005 WRX STi for the past ~9 years. Mechanical engineer by trade, and very capable of doing most mechanical repairs and troubleshooting. Zero experience with body work and welding, although I plan to learn. I have connections to get parts fabricated if need be (sheet metal and machined parts if necc.) I will be attempting to do all work myself with the exception of painting (i plan to do prep work), carb rebuilding and engine modification. (at least that is the current plan)

I am looking to get a car to wrench on as a hobby for the next stage of my life. (house, kids, mid life expenses) I have focused in on the 240z as a classic, straightforward and spirited weekend car. I like the streamlined mechanics, history and seemingly great community that surrounds them. My requirements for the initial purchase are pretty minimal, simply because I have a desire to restore most everything myself over time. Best case would be a car that's running currently (240z), and has no major rust issues. I live on the east coast (Baltimore at the moment, Connecticut in the near future), but have family in AZ that is experienced with these cars and restoring them. I figure that's the better bet for minimal rust, and he is excited to help me find a starting point.

First few years would probably be learning about the car and scouring these forums to develop a plan while combing through the different issues my car may have. It will be a weekend toy, possibly some Auto X. Mostly me admiring it and hoon'ing it up a bit around town.

Ultimate plans for the car would include:

-Full body/paint restoration

-Rebuild engine if required.

--Maybe years down the road modify engine for more power (professinally done. boring, cams, pistons etc. kept as NA, probably remain carbed)

---(Is there a major reason to go either L24/26/28 when it comes to modifying it later?)

-Swap to 5 speed transmission for more comfortable cruising

-Possibly upgrade suspension

-Maybe brake upgrades simply for aesthetic reasons (I know its far from required for my purposes)

I should also say that my ideal time for purchase would be from early/mid 2015 onward. We plan to move back to Connecticut and begin house hunting... so anything before that would require storage and additional hassle. If bought in AZ my family could store the car for me though, until my move had finished. Bottom line is that I have plenty of time to wait for the right car. I am less interested in a "great deal" and more interested in the "right deal".

I have allotted between $5k and $10k to acquire a car. It would seem that 10k would be overkill though, as it will have a lot of the work already done that I would like to do myself. Of course I say that, but I'm sure most here will agree that every $1 spent at the start is equal to many more spent in the long run. I have to find the right balance.

I have read a lot of the threads about spotting rust and most places I should be asking about to see if there are hidden issues. I won't be anywhere near as effective as you guys, and without experience doing the actual repairs it is hard to judge how much time/effort repairing certain things will cost. (floorpans, frame rails, rear hatch, etc)

I also don't have any experience with carbs, or how to effectively inspect the motor. I suppose compression tests would be important, but without knowing how they should sound... I will be mostly in the dark in this area. Ditto for the carb, although I will most likely have it rebuilt to future proof myself while I learn.

I don't really know where I am going with this post, other than I am excited to acquire one in the future, and want to make the most of my time leading up to that point really understanding what the proper starting point should be. I have also never sat in one or driven one, and while everything I have read has led me to believe I will love these cars surely I must do that before I fully commit to this path. I am hoping to find some generous enthusiasts who can help in this area, or some especially nice people at car shows willing to go out of their way.

Glad to become a member of the community, and I look forward to picking everyone's brains in the future as I learn the Datsun ropes.

Dave

Edited July 9, 2014 by IceWilly

[EuroDat]

Holy crape. Thats about the longest first post Ive seen on hereLOL

Welcome to the club and forum. Like you already mentioned, there is a lot of info here to get you started, but if you're in doubt, don't hesitate to ask. This forum is friendly than others.

You could also try Carl's zhome website the Z Car Home Page Its also a great site to find information.

Atlantic Z is another for tech tips and plenty of photo's Tech Tips

Cheers

Chas

[Hardway]

Welcome to the club Dave! Kudos for posting up and laying out your plan. You are already off on the right foot because you have defined what you are looking for, you have a budget, and a time frame. The best advice that I can give and many others will agree “buy the best car you can afford” I finally took this advice and just bought a ’71 Series-1 240z a few weekends ago. See my 2 threads below for info and the few items I am addressing on it. Like any classic car the ownership experience comes down to what you want. You mentioned you wanted to ground up restore a car. As admirable and romantic as this thought can be it can result in burnout and overall dissatisfaction with the car. I went through this with my ’72 lime green 240z. Had over $6K in it, it still needed $6K - $8K worth of work, and sold it for a loss in the end. On the flip side, my silver ’71 240z has been 100x more enjoyable from day one but was only 3x the price that I originally paid for the lime green Z. Granted, I now have over $10K in it with the purchase price, a new radiator, tires etc. but it was a great car to start with.

’71 240z

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/open-s30-z-discussions/52517-its-mine-new-owner-1971-240z-8011-a.html

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/open-s30-z-discussions/52614-hardways-1971-240z-8011-build-repair-thread.html

’72 lime green 240z

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/open-s30-z-discussions/47863-lime-green-machine-restoration-thread-1972-240z.html

If spending months or years restoring a classic Japanese sports car is what you want to do with your time then spend $3K - $5K on someone’s project and make it your own. You will get nothing but support and praise for your efforts from everyone here including me. If you want to spend more time driving a classic Japanese sports car, enjoying it with you family, and tinkering on it when it needs stuff because it will, then spend $8K - $15K on a as rust free as possible 80% - 99% restored 240z.

Everything above is just my opinion because I have been there, too many times in fact. Seeing that you have a family and a move planned I would seriously factor in the benefits or side effects of restoring a car will have on them. I know many others will chime in because we all want to see current and future Z owners happy.

[hwyman456]

Dave, Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you have a great plan in place and I really hope you find what you are looking for.

Chas and Hardway offered up some good advice here.. The only thing I could ad to this is to look for the right kind of car in other words avoid the major projects and of course rust. . . being the biggest issue with most of these old cars and nearly impossible to find a truly "rust free' old car.

I have been lucky in picking up other peoples projects they have lost interest in where I was able to avoid allot of the time consuming and major expense stuff.

Also I suggest avoiding getting too hung up on wanting certain makes/models instead of a general type of vehicle and finding the one that you personally can handle. Some can do bodywork others mechanical, some can do it all.

I happened to stumble into my Z project and even though I had always wanted one it wasn't exactly what I was looking for.

Good Luck

[Zed Head]

I am looking to get a car to wrench on as a hobby for the next stage of my life.

This is probably the key statement. I bought my car because it was straight, non-dented and mechanically sound. But it didn't run. Because I was looking for a garage project and like the mechanical, electrical, mostly engine-based things. Hate bodywork. I was actually thinking about a small-block chevy swap and only got the engine running for in-the-meantime.

If you buy a car that's too complete, there won't be anything to do to it.

[bartsscooterservice]

I think you allready mentioned the most important things yourself...the most important one: finding a solid car to begin with.

The costs to restore are usually higher then when you buy a 240Z that's alllready 90% done like members above here also say.

[Kurbycar32]

I used to be of the mindset that bodywork was less important than a running motor, now I'm the opposite. Get the straightest rust free car you can with an engine in almost any condition as long as its all there. Motor work is much easier to do in your garage than bodywork. here in CA its literally illegal to paint your own car with anything but lacquer, paint options are extremely limited due to environmental requirements and the equipment required to shoot CA legal paint is cost prohibited. On the other hand you can do a complete rebuild on a drivetrain and nobody says boo

[rossiz]

++ to kuryby above

the other thing about bodywork vs. engine work: lots of engines around, a good running motor doesn't HAVE to look good, you can do it yourself with a manual and some time and pretty basic tools in a basement. a decent re-build will run well and last you many years.

body work requires serious skills/experience to do WELL (of course anyone can do a quick bondo patch, but i sense you're looking for long-term quality) and paint requires a significant shop investment and expensive materials = $$ for a really nice job. even small short-cuts in body/paint will have you pulling out your hair in a couple of seasons with rust-through and other issues.

there really are good examples of these cars out there, just need to look and be patient.

best of luck - looking forward to seeing your story unfold once you find the right car.

[IceWilly]

Thanks everyone for the kind words and the welcome. Sorry about the wall of text introductory post, mostly just putting everything in one place so that the advice can be tailored accordingly.

I will agree that a good quality body is top priority. Like I said before I have access to cars in Arizona, as well as things along the northern east coast. I'm not against flying somewhere for the right car, but being a noob to these cars i would be concerned about assessing the quality via pictures. I am sure you guys could be helpful in that regard, but I know you have to act quickly in many cases and surely I wouldn't be the only one here with interest.

I am hopeful that a quality shell will come out of Arizona. Sure the interior might be scorched, but I can replace that over time and get it where I want it to be. A running car hopefully. I have no idea what this should cost though. I also don't know which of the body issues are the more troublesome ones, and which are more straightforward.

Assuming for the moment that the car I acquire has very minimal rust and no major damage/bends... what body work will I be looking at to future proof it for rust? I don't plan to drive in anything but dry spring/summer weather... and will avoid rain unless its unexpected.

I also have my heart set on a very nice paint job. Doesn't have to be for another 5-10 years if other things go well, but I want it done right. But admittedly I have no idea how much that should cost. I would assume a few thousand.

Edited July 10, 2014 by IceWilly

[siteunseen]

I'll say $5,000 for a decent car, another $2k getting it reliable and $4k to $5k for a top notch paint jod. There are some very prone areas that rust to look for, https://www.google.com/search?q=240z+rust+areas&rlz=1C1BOFA_enUS494US494&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=iwK_U9rdNtW3yATDxoG4Dg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=620, plus check the gap width all around the doors hood and hatch. Definitely wear some old clothes and get own your back up under the car, take pictures to look at when you're at home on a bigger screen. Make sure the car is painted the same color in the engine bay as the body, if not it's a repaint and will not be worth as much.

[Pop's Z]

When I went looking for my car the best advice I got (and followed) was from Carl Beck. Buy the best car you can afford. You'll be way ahead in the long run. He was right. I spent more than I wanted, but when I read about all the problems here I realize that I don't have any of those issues. Thanks, Carl. Also I would add don't be in a hurry, you WILL find the right car. It just may take some time.

Cheers, Mike