freeing corroded tube in tube...ideas sought

[240260280z]

OK it is a toyota. The rear camber adjustments are eccentric's that go through the control arm bushings. These things are like the wonderful spindle pins in that two cylindrical surfaces corrode due to water.

The difference is that the hollow eccentric tube fits in a slightly larger tube that is moulded to the bushing (see cut up lca end bushings and eccentric tube that I found on line).

Any ideas on how to separate?

I will build a puller and spray with penetrating oil but I am thinking that controlled heating then cooling of the eccentric may help break the bond between the surfaces?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Blue

[Captain Obvious]

Woof. Highlander maybe? I ended up having to replace a control arm because of that.

The usual... penetrating oil. judicious use of heat. Pound first on the cheap parts, etc. You got the lock bolt completely out of the center already right? Can you get the one side eccentric washer off (the one that fits over the hex part of the sleeve you posted)?

If you give up and have to do the whole arm, one little piece of good news is that the new control arm comes with the bushing installed already. At least on the Highlander.

I looked a lot for a decent Toyota forum and finaly ended up here > Toyota Nation Forum. I'm only there for the Highlander, but if that's what you're working on, I'll recognize you there (or maybe you'll figure me out over there first).

[240260280z]

Thanks CO

It is a 2004 RAV but Toyota enjoys torturing us all with this design and lack of factory antiseize. It is like a Toyota engineer saw the spindle pin problem from 1970 and said lets do this in 6 places on every model after at least 1996. (front and rear camber and rear toe and both my ravs are this design/lack there-of).

So far, with patience, I have the centre locking bolt out as well as the eccentric nut/washer part.

I have a slide hammer so I was considering running a shaft through the eccentric tube and pull-hammering with a nut and washer applying the force where the eccentric nut had been.

I was also considering making a puller to draw the eccentric out but there is not much to use for a base for the puller plus it has to clear the eccentric. A come-along on a distant tree may be another possibility but it may just slowly bend the sheet metal mount for the control arm.

Using a breaker bar on the eccentric bolt may be something else to try but with the frozen eccentric still in the captive sides, I don't think it is a good idea at this stage.

I'm wondering if there is another trick or when to try the heat.

For heat I am thinking that propane on the eccentric face/hole followed by a garden hose of water shooting through it may draw the heat out of it fast enough to contract and break the bond? I am guessing that a lot of water will pull more heat more rapidly than spraying canned freeze?

[Zed Head]

Is the outer tube steel? I've had the thought that Naval Jelly (phosphoric acid solution gel) might be worth a try to break a rusted bolt free. When steel or iron rusts, it grows in size. If the Naval Jelly breaks the rust back down maybe it will loosen up.

Never tried it but it seems logical. To me.

[Namerow]

I've been playing recently with de-rusting parts by electrolysis (12VDC battery/battery charger, sacrificial steel anode, soda bath -- lots of write-ups on this technique available on-line). This approach won't harm the rubber (polymer) bushing and I have a suspicion that it may be more effective in getting to the concealed rust than something like penetrating oil or naval jelly. Just a hunch, though. Used in combination with thermal shock and a slide hammer, it might just work. In the end, it's no more likely to damage the parts than a torch

[Captain Obvious]

It is like a Toyota engineer saw the spindle pin problem from 1970 and said lets do this in 6 places on every model after at least 1996.

Haha! That is is my friend! At least my 02 HL only has two of them in the rear. I'm not sure which is better... Having those, or having no camber adjustment at all.

Well getting the centre lock bolt out is the first hurdle and getting one of the plates off the end is the next.

Problem with heat is that the eccentric tube is all the way down in the middle and is surrounded by the rubber bushing. If you're going to use any heat, you need to get it on the eccentric and not simply heat the outside of the control arm. You can blast propane down the center hole left open after removal of the lock bolt, and your idea about water getting the temp down quickly is probably faster than Freon blast. You might follow the water up with some Freon to sub-cool the eccentric below the temp that the water would achieve?

The slide hammer idea is a good one. If you can get that sleeve to move at all, I think you'll be able to get it out completely.

I tried turning the hex part of the sleeve until there was no more hex part, and I tried pounding it through until there was nothing but a bloody mushroomed stump remaining. I finally ended up prying the ears on the undercarriage apart enough to get in there with a reciprocating saw and cut the control arm out (just like the Z spindle pins). I knew something wouldn't survive, so I had to concentrate the sawing on the control arm to salvage the undercarriage ears.

Not knowing how it really went together was part of the challenge. That and frustration of course.

Now knowing how it works, another suggestion is to drill out the eccentric. You need a drill bit with an OD the same or just slightly smaller than the OD of the eccentric. And you don't have to go all the way through, just deep enough to get beyond the holes in the receiving ear flanges of the undercarriage. That way you can pull the control arm off the car and deal with the rest of the eccentric still left in the hole on the bench instead of on the car. If you can get the arm off the car, you can use a hydraulic press to get any remaining stub of that eccentric out of the bushing. And failing that, you might be able to find a replacement bushing without having to replace the entire arm?

If there isn't enough room to swing a drill, you might be able to use a dremel? Or a hacksaw down through the eccentric to collapse it on itself (just like some people do with the Z bushings).

Another last ditch idea would be to first determine that you can get replacement bushings without (without having to buy an entire control arm) and if so, you can use hotter heat (oxy-acet) on the eccentric. The rubber of the bushing would be destroyed, but the additional heat may make it possible to get the eccentric to move.

I feel for ya!!!

[djwarner]

Assuming you can get these off the car, you might want to try a product called Evapo-rust. It works by chelation and transports the rust away from the surface. Haven't used the stuff myself, but might be worth a try.

[240260280z]

Thanks guys. I like the drilling idea.... another tool for the upcoming battle. I'll keep you all posted.

btw I just tried the Evaporust on a relic and it worked great. I am about to pick up a dishwasher and recirculate evaporust through it like a parts washer but it will be more of a wetter/heater for big objects that can't be soaked.

[Captain Obvious]

An impact wrench on the adjuster nut might also help knock the eccentric loose. Put the lock bolt back through and the adjuster plate that mates with the hex and then try an impact on the adjuster nut on the plate? Or maybe an impact wrench right on the hex portion of the eccentric? Just make sure you don't crack the eccentric (yet).

You could also maybe try putting the lock bolt back through backwards and using an impact chisel on the head of the bolt to see if you can push the eccentric through. Lube everything first.

Or weld a piece of thick rod or bar to the big washer end of the eccentric and use that as a handle to try to turn or knock the eccentric from the big end?

Good luck with the inevitable battle!

[240260280z]

Got one camber adjuster rotating after a few cycles of heat, water, slide hammer. Now working on the other adjuster.

Not fun work.

The adjuster only works easily with the wheel unloaded.

[bartsscooterservice]

Sometimes you just can't get it loose what ever you try and have to replace the part. It's amazing how stuck things can go.. I had to use a 4 meter pipe on an m16 nut last week to break it free, my heaviest impact wrenches of 1200nm couldn't break it free.