Nissan Factory / Commemorative 240z on ebay

[DatsunZGuy]

This is a very nice example and I hope it commands a fair price!

I have to say that I am disappointed and not surprised by some of the negative comments. There is significant amount of nitpicking of faults and pointing out of “non-original” aspects of this automobile.

Having been a member of this forum for over a dozen years, sadly little has changed. There seems to be a prevailing tendency to over-criticize a vehicle and swiftly pass judgment. This type of attitude is the reason that I rarely visit this site, and have kept my over three decades and half a dozen 240Zs of experience to myself. I use to post often in the beginning, but seen this site really go downhill over the years.

Perhaps this pointing out of faults is some type of therapy and display of passive aggressiveness to make one feel better about their inferior vehicle to the one to posted on the forum for public scrutiny.

Take a moment to step back and enjoy to vehicle for what it is. Sure it is not a Uber Grand Master Gold Medallion winner or whatever. Nonetheless, it is a fine car and its sale will help increase respect to the cars make well all hold so dear.

Rant over!

[AZ-240z]

I am enjoying all of the comments and would be interested in this communties thoughts on Vintage Program Z-Cars. As theoretical future owners of this fine

example of the Vintage Program, would you value this car more if you modified it with all of the correct factory parts as delivered from the factory, ie., a

correct judged stock show winner? Or, do you think that this car would loose the intrinsic valuation element as it is no longer "as presented" as a Vintage Z

program car?

I think we are all motivated to value things differently depending on an individual's perspective.

We may all eventually define what is "Correct", but what is "Rignt" for these fine cars?

Dan

Edited August 27, 2014 by AZ-240z

[motorman7]

This is a very nice example and I hope it commands a fair price!

I have to say that I am disappointed and not surprised by some of the negative comments. There is significant amount of nitpicking of faults and pointing out of “non-original” aspects of this automobile.

Having been a member of this forum for over a dozen years, sadly little has changed. There seems to be a prevailing tendency to over-criticize a vehicle and swiftly pass judgment. This type of attitude is the reason that I rarely visit this site, and have kept my over three decades and half a dozen 240Zs of experience to myself. I use to post often in the beginning, but seen this site really go downhill over the years.

Perhaps this pointing out of faults is some type of therapy and display of passive aggressiveness to make one feel better about their inferior vehicle to the one to posted on the forum for public scrutiny.

Take a moment to step back and enjoy to vehicle for what it is. Sure it is not a Uber Grand Master Gold Medallion winner or whatever. Nonetheless, it is a fine car and its sale will help increase respect to the cars make well all hold so dear.

Rant over!

My bad, Sorry. It's this starvation diet that is making me irritable. I really need a carne asada burrito.

[Hardway]

I will add my .02 here since I have a series-1 silver 240z. The Z in the auction is beautiful in every respect. Yeah, there are some incorrect details we can all point out but I agree that whoever is buying it is to own one of the commemorative Z’s, not have a true concourse level car. That in itself makes these an outlier on the price spectrum. It could easily hit $40K but I think $50K is a bit much. Any other Z restored to this level, correct hose clamps or not usually run $20K - $25K.

Personally, seeing the auction and examining all the pictures motivates me to get mine closer to this level. Seeing just how great the end result can be just puts a smile on my face. My car is easily 90% there with all the mechanical stuff rebuilt, painted, and detailed. I am only a quality paint job and some small details away from having an “A” level car. Plus, mine has most of its factory correct hose clamps already restored

[AZ-240z]

My bad, Sorry. It's this starvation diet that is making me irritable. I really need a carne asada burrito.

Rich, no need to beat yourself up. I think many of us are starved, but for those posts where we used to discuss all of those NOS parts that

enhanced the originality of our restorations.

Kats, Chris, Carl, and, yes, even Alan mentored me through there posts to complete my car to total stock originality. And you have one of the

nicest survivors of an early Z in the country sitting in your garage. That makes it very difficult for us not to comment when we notice exceptions

incorporated in Vintage Program cars, some possibly purposeful given the availability of parts and current safety standards.

Dan

[zed2]

I see no mention that the vehicle has the 4-speed. (I recall that at least one vehicle was delivered with a 5-speed.)

Keith

[jtmader]

Being an owner of a Vintage Z ('72 lime) I can really appreciate the beauty in this 1970 Vintage Z. I took the time to "correct" as some of you call the "issues" with the Vintage Z's. Working with a beautiful base car like that (and mine) makes the few "tweaks" I had to do very minor. None of the Vintage Z's can be considered stock....they were meant to be close but not 100%. Most if not all do not have luggage straps and a lot (mine included) did not come with radio's. I later installed a stock AM/FM radio. I personally hope it sells for $50K++ as it will bode well for all the VZ owners out there.

[jonathanrussell]

It could be argued that the 37 Vintage Z cars have their own “originality” stamp. We might find, at least for the sake of value, that as time progresses it becomes important to leave the nuances of the Vintage Z cars as they were delivered.

I for one think that it was a really great thing that Nissan sanctioned such an endeavor and executed it in such a high-quality way. While yes, there are differences from original, the cars were restored to a very high level. What a unique thing for a car company to do. Has any car company ever done anything similar? I assume so but can’t think of an example. BMW rebuilt one amazing 2002tii. Does anyone know of other similar examples?

[psdenno]

It could be argued that the 37 Vintage Z cars have their own “originality” stamp. We might find, at least for the sake of value, that as time progresses it becomes important to leave the nuances of the Vintage Z cars as they were delivered.

I think that's a healthy way to look at the Vintage Zs. They are a subtype unto themselves and really shouldn't be compared to restored Zs or low miles "barn find" Zs. Just like a "real" Scarab V8 Z conversion carries a premium price over a homemade V8 conversion, so should the Vintage Z program cars.

They aren't stock, they weren't refurbished on an assembly line in Japan. They were a marketing move built to represent, and remind the US market of, the spirit of the original Z, warts and all. The fact that they differ slightly from the originals that rolled off the assembly line a couple decades earlier makes them slightly unique and maybe justifies the premium price to those who value the intangible nature of the product.

When offered for sale, the Vintage Zs were a second chance for buyers to own a "new" early Z. Buying an early Z off the showroom floor was a heady experience. I know.

Dennis

Edited August 27, 2014 by psdenno

[xs10shl]

Just based on my experiences buying, selling, and following the classic car market - for all cars that are not individually known for winning a race, or some other historic achievement, when it comes to price, image in the eye of the beholder is everything. Even for the most pedestrian makes and models, I've found it astonishing at the list of intangibles that add value: a car that can differentiate itself just because it is a Ferrari, or even one that isn't but was assembled at the Ferrari factory; a car that was in some way involved in a movie, ad campaign, or otherwise; a car that was owned by a famous individual or actor; and more.

For the time being, these "Factory commissioned" cars have value above and beyond what a typical concours restoration brings, if only because of their position in history. But like all things with intangible value-adds, as more Z cars get restored to factory original, we may see a change in the pecking order, as more collectors educate themselves with what is period correct, and what isn't, and decide for themselves what is more important.

[ollie]

Well just like that, either the seller got cold feet, an offer came from outside ebay or he / she has found another method of marketing the car as the auction has been ended with no bids. Hardway made a note about full restoration cars selling for $20 - $25K, I suppose there are varying levels of restorations, however given the cost of NOS parts, shopped out body work, machine shop rates and other items such as chrome and plating services, a full on restoration of a solid foundation car can easily eclipse $50k. That owner would of course be way long on what the market would bear however I keep a half eye open and have seen a number of cars over the past 2 years sell in the $40K range. Given the attraction of the Vintage Z program, I bet this car went for around $50k.

[HS30-H]

Kats, Chris, Carl, and, yes, even Alan mentored me through there posts to complete my car to total stock originality.

Thanks for the back-handed compliment, but I'd like to see you mention Mike Brame in this context. We don't see him around on this forum all that much lately, but his contributions on such topics are in the archives and are a valuable reference.

And Chris Wenzel wrote THE definitive document on the VZ Program cars, as far as I'm concerned. I've even given a copy to a VZ Program car owner who lives in Japan.

Looks like we finally got the "Factory" thing sorted out, didn't we....?