240z Steering Play

[HuD 91gt]

After about 3 months, I finally tossed the wheels back on the Z (1971 240z).

I am in the process of getting the vehicle ready to pass an out of province inspection. When I initially brought it in, they said I needed a new steering rack. Clearly not very easy to come across(New).

I've since, dissembled the rack, tightened the bushings (large screw thing in the middle of the lock nut). Replaced rack bushings, new steering coupler, and tie rod ends.

Today was the first time I was able to give the steering a turn. There is noticeable amount of play within the rack that I never noticed before. Perhaps its the more stiff poly bushings which make it more pronounced. But despite my effort, I have a feeling they won't let this pass.

Is it possible to get rid of this play? I've searched for rack replacements, but it doesn't look like much is available.

[Captain Obvious]

First thing... When you say you put on new tie rod ends, are you talking about outers, inners, or both? Because if you didn't replace the inners, I would look at them first. If you already did that and there truly is play inside the rack itself, I don't believe there are any easy fixes. There are only two moving parts inside the rack, and that's the rack gear and the pinon gear (and it's bearings). So what could be the problem?

Rack gear worn.

Pinion gear worn.

Worn bronze bushings on the ends of the rack housing.

Rack rod itself worn where it rides through those bronze bushings.

I'm hoping it's inner tie rod ends and not with the rack "proper" at all.

Lots of pics and info in this thread:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/suspension-steering-s30/51640-steering-rack-disassembly-refurb.html

I'm sure there are subtle differences between the 240 and 280 rack assy's but I suspect their similar enough that there might be useful info there even though it was for a 280.

[CanTechZ]

Are you positive that the rack is the problem, is there any play in the u-joint at the rack end of your lower steering rod? Even a small amount of play in that u-joint can add significant play in your steering. I replaced my lower steering rod c/w u-joint with good used parts and it made a huge difference.

Mike

[HuD 91gt]

I replaced the outer tie rods. I had the understanding the inners were no longer available? I'll take a closer look and see if I can get a better understanding of what is moving. This would be a lot easier with two people.

I never thought about the U-Joints. The only thing that makes me think it is in the rack portion itself is you can definitely feel it when you grab the tire at 9 and 3, and give it a shake. It has a little play/clunking noise before any movement happens. I don't think the U joint would do this, but I will certainly check it out anyhow. Thanks for the tips. I should also say, the play is felt in the steering wheel as well.

Edited September 9, 2014 by HuD 91gt

[HuD 91gt]

The only thing I can come up with is from this forum, where people used RHT 280zx Inners, with I suppose 2 RHT outers?

240Z Inner Tie Rod / Rack end - Sourcing?

Edited September 9, 2014 by HuD 91gt

[Mike W]

I believe that I might have already posted this info in Captain's link above, but for completeness I'll add it again here.

The inners are available and I have used them. Made quite a big difference in my rack rebuild. A company call Rare Parts sells them. You can fin a link to the inners here:

http://shop.rareparts.com/smtp/shopdisplaycategories.asp?iyear=1974&imake=0041|NISSAN&imodel=1009|260Z&iproduct=0049|STEERING, GEAR, PUMP & COMPONENTS

They are clearly aftermarket as the design is a little different than OEM, but I can say from my own use that they work great. The only thing to remember is that they only make a right hand thread version and so you need to get 2 right hand thread outers (unlike the OEM configuration).

Also, I would check to make sure that you have the rack adjustment pretty tight. I believe the Captain has a reference to that in his write up as well.

Hope this helps.

Mike.

[HuD 91gt]

Thanks. I've read that thread a couple times over. So much good information I still missed some good stuff. I'm going to get under the car shortly and see if I can feel where the play is coming from.

[HuD 91gt]

Well, upon closer inspection I don't think it is coming from the rack at all. There is a little bit of play, which I believe is coming from the upper U joint on the steering column. This is causing the little amount of play at the steering wheel.

There is also something else loose when I rock the tires back and forth while holding them in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. It is worse on the drivers side. I don't think it is the balljoint as it only happens in the 9 and 3 positions. Could the front wheel bearings be worn out? Although very minimal, there is a noise which comes with the movement and it does sound like it is coming from the hub area.

Either way, it is fairly minimal and I am going for my provincial inspection tomorrow. I knocked everything off their "to-do" list, so hopefully they might let it slide. Wish me luck!

Edited September 10, 2014 by HuD 91gt

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, searching out where play like that is 1000 times easier with someone else inside the car rocking the steering wheel back and forth. It also helps to keep the tires on the ground so they don't move as much. I found that if the tires are locked in place by friction with the floor, it helps isolate the issue. You gotta be able to beg or borrow someone for fifteen minutes to sit in your driver's seat and rock the wheel.

I'm still hoping for something not inside the rack itself. Inner tie rod ends or steering coupler would be easier to find than a whole rack. U-joints from what I've heard would be no treat to find though... Let's hope that's not it either.

Here's a pic of one of Mike's new inner tie rod ends from that other thread:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]69927[/ATTACH]

Looks very different than stock, but it's under the bootie, so who cares?

Good luck!!

[Dr. 240Z]

"I'm still hoping for something not inside the rack itself. Inner tie rod ends or steering coupler would be easier to find than a whole rack. U-joints from what I've heard would be no treat to find though... Let's hope that's not it either."

Actually, the U-joints are not too difficult to source. Google: Motor Master & ATV700 & Kawasaki & Universal Joint

Shop around as the price varies significantly

George

[Captain Obvious]

Cool! I thought I remembered people having a hard time sourcing the U-joints. Glad to hear there's a source available!

[zKars]

I almost hate to bring up another source of steering play but here goes.

The column itself has a splined connection internally that allows for the column crush action in a crash. There can be play there between the splines after all these years as well. A good friend while tracking down his steering play found that if you change the engagement point of the splines, ie telescope the lower end that sticks out of the column in the engine bay up about a 1/4", the play went away since you have changed to spline mesh contact points. The way to move the shaft deeper/uphill into the end of the column is to add a spacer next to the rubber/poly isolator puck inside the coupler. This also means four longer bolts and the creation of a spacer with holes. Anybody know a trick to tightening a spline fit? A bit of hammer "work" to deform then slightly???

I know what you're thinking, there are two splined joints on the steering shaft, one at the rack, and one just below the rubber coupler, why not just slide them each apart 1/8" and re-tighten that lock bolt? Well, that lock bolt fits through a very tight fitting cross groove in the splines so you don't have any up or down movement or you can't put the bolt back in. Well you could "enlarge" that groove on the side toward the firewall I guess, but not so easy to do.

I'm waiting for a set of those ATV ujoints to come as well. Every one of the spare steering shafts I have has some play in those u-joints. You have to clamp one side of the yoke in a vice, then slap a vice grip on the shaft on the other side and wiggle it to actually feel the paly, but there is play in both the upper and lower ujoint in every one I have.

And now for my amusing observation of the day. I believe the person who designed the steering isolator rubber thing was Canadian. How do I know? Well I found an official NHL hockey puck in the last parts car. I had heard that some people had used a puck to make an isolator so I couldn't resist comparing the stock donut to an official puck that I just happen to have in my hand. Well, I could not believe how PRECISE the thickness of the puck matches the stock donut. Within a couple of thou!!! The OD of the puck is a bit larger, but there is no way the near perfect thickness match is just a co-incidence. There the designer is therefore Canadian since we invented the game. Obvious, eh?