Thinking about installing an BMW M6 engine in my Z

[Patcon]

An engine test stand would make it much easier. That's a great idea

[grannyknot]

That is a great idea Chas, I'll do that.

I was thinking about the miles of wire in the M6 harness today and it occurred to me that all the those engine management systems I listed would have to go to the ECU first. It might just be as simple as following the wires from the ECU connector  back through the harness and leave the rest.

 

Blue, I would really like to do that for you but I'm going to need some more time before I can offer it up.

I have only kept it because some future owner might want to have the matching numbers original engine.

[EuroDat]

That is a great idea Chas, I'll do that.

I was thinking about the miles of wire in the M6 harness today and it occurred to me that all the those engine management systems I listed would have to go to the ECU first. It might just be as simple as following the wires from the ECU connector  back through the harness and leave the rest.

 

That is what I was thinking too. With the engine on a stand with radiator en transmission you can access everything so much easier. Once the wiring is all sorted out and the unused stuff removed, you can bundle it together and label were everything goes.

I did this and routed the exhaust through a muffler and some flexable aluminium tubing outside the garage.

 

This gives you more advantages:

1. The Z is off the road for a minimum time.

2. Your "back out point" is outside the Z. If it doesn't work or you decide to give up on it than its minimum loss and the Z is still intact.

3. You know the engine will run before you do the transplant. Nothing worse than getting the engine in and spending the next six months getting bugs out of the electronics.

 

If you go forward with this, take plenty of pictures. I didn't and have regreted it ever since.

 

Chas

[bartsscooterservice]

Chris, Have made a discision on changing your motor or starting on another Z. If you could do the swap without cutting into the Zed, that would make it easier to reverse later if needed.

I don't know if you have the matching numbers L24? Without it the collector value will drop a lot.

Any idea what power loss you would have by changing the efi for tripples? What would be your option for the ignition?

If you could do the transplant with all that it produced somewher around 250hp. Thats a big increase over what you have now and probably better fuel economy as well.

I came across this bargin today in a saleyard close by us. He has 2 240Z's. This will give you an idea what crazy prices they ask over here.

http://www.erclassics.com/Datsun-240Z-classic-car-for-sale-1190.php

Chas

 

Yeah, then you'd be better of with Stolze, he has nothing under 12k but they are much better condition than the stuff E&R is selling..

There's a M50B20 lying in the shed here rotting away. Great motors, but worth nothing here, since everybody wants to drive eco crap.

Edited May 18, 2015 by bartsscooterservice

[RyanT67]

Blue, THANK YOU, I would love to see your bookmarked/favorites list, I'll bet it is a thing to behold.

SteveJ, I found that thread a couple of days ago, pretty great.

After going through most of threads posted I see a pattern of ECU problems, or maybe not problems but challenges, some of them big. What if I could avoid it all by installing triple carbs?

It would eliminate most of the electronics, which I have to admit aren't my favorite to play with. I know I would loose some power but the Z is about a 1000 lbs lighter than an M6 so I would still be far ahead.

I would need a stand alone ignition system, the Electromotive crank P/U

and separate coils might do the job well.

Still just thinking out loud.

Thanks,

Chris

Interesting project.  If you went to carbs, would you need some form of intake manifold for them?  I just so happen to have this laying around from a set of Mikuni 44's I bought off ebay.  Not sure if it's correct for the specific engine you have though...

[grannyknot]

Ryan, That is interesting, I'll keep it mind. Although at this point I have all but ruled out using carbs on the M6 engine, I will just have to get over my unfamiliarity with electronics

Edited May 18, 2015 by grannyknot

[RyanT67]

Roger that, no point in cutting corners.  I wonder what sort of difference an engine like that would see between carbs and stock injection - it being an 80's engine and BMW, I would imagine it's all pretty well engineered, so the carb set up would probably prove detrimental.  Still, it certainly is simpler to just bolt on some carbs and go.  If you change your mind, I plan on getting out to a few OZC events this summer, so it's not a problem to bring the pieces out with me.  

I think the guy I got my Mikunis from was running them on an old M3 he was racing.  No idea what drove him to use such a setup.  The jetting in the carbs was pretty much the exact same as what I run on my 3.0 L28.    

[grannyknot]

So I have run into some big problems, the oil pump pick up, oil pump and chain drive are all in the way. Even if I can find an M30 with rear sump and oil p/u I still have  the pump itself, sprocket and chain in the way.

Anyone with experience in dry sump or electric oil pumps, please jump in here!

I can use spacers like Ron did in his build, http://forums.hybrid...-bmw-m-powered/

to lower the main crossmember and steering rack but probably no more than 3/4".

It would be easy enough to remove the entire oil pump & p/u and fabricate an oil pan that gives the clearance i need but I have zero experience with alternate oil pumps.

Every other aspect is a go, it fits very well, some pics of todays work,

 

Now I just had an idea, possibly a stupid idea but here goes,

would the power steering pump provide enough pressure so I could re-purpose it to act as the external oil pump? That would allow me to shave 5" off the bottom of the oil pan.

Chris

 

[grannyknot]

To answer my own question, a steering pump could deliver the pressure but not the volume.

I'm going to try modifying the oil pump and oil pan so that they clear the cross member, I think that will be the simplest compromise compared to firewall surgery or dry sump route.

[Patcon]

What about modifying the cross member? That might be easier

[Careless]

Chris,

 

Have you thought about canting the engine over a bit more to match the angle of the Z engine. This would allow the pump (which will still be in the way, even if you change to a different pump design, due to how it's driven) to clear the mounting bracket, so that you can modify the crossmember, and drop it half an inch. That would be where I would start (I've modified many crossmembers and done some really weird swaps with similar mods).

[grannyknot]

In addition to moding the oil pan I think will also have to do some cut and paste on the crossmember

as well. The crossmember on the M6 sits about 12" rear of where the Z does so the oil pan and pump are completely wrong for the Z, but the engine is soooooo right.

I would like to make the stock oil pump work because first it's brand new and is also a very good pump.

The cost of dry sumping the engine was $3000 and climbing  when I decided that I had find a cheaper way.

On the first pic that pointy triangular piece on the pan is exactly where the steering rack/shaft u joint sits.